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EdT

Need a Laser Printer !

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OK, I'am feed up on spending on replacement cartridges for thoose dam inkjets that wastes half the ink just to unclog the nozzles, I saw today at Future Shop a new HP inkjet printer with 2 ink cartridges cost $19.99cdn after rebate and guess what the replacement cartridges cost ? $50.00cdn a pop, its cheaper to buy a dam new printer with the ink cartridges than the replacements ...go figure !. I want to get a good used laser printer ...any preferable models in mind, I know the the HP 4P is the best as I heard, going to check out a auction tommorow morning.

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LJ4s are wonderful. You might try contacting an equipment recycler such as Comdisco or Paladin Systems. $75 Lease-return Laser printers aren't that hard to find.

Also check dovebid.com for worldwide business auctions.

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New lasers are so cheap now that you are waisting money on used ones.

Buy a new laser and get the warranty.

I like Brother lasers, how ever if lowest price is what you are after buy a Lexmark laser from your locar Office Depot or Best Buy.

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New lasers are so cheap now that you are waisting money on used ones.

Buy a new laser and get the warranty.

I like Brother lasers, how ever if lowest price is what you are after buy a Lexmark laser from your locar Office Depot or Best

Thoose under $500 printer will never be built like the quality of a business class printer such as the LJ 4P. The consumables such as toner is another consideraton. There are virtually dozens of toner cartridges refill house that will stock drums and toner assemblies for under $50, pick-up and delivery included ! A technician at a repair center told me to stick with a business class HP or Okidata and avoid Brothers and Toshibas all together becuase of parts availity and quality of design. [/b]

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If it's the HP LaserJet 4P you're referring to (and not one of the newer 4000, 4050, or 4100 series) then it's an older model. Take a look here to start:

http://h200004.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/Tech..._US&docId=33657

http://h200004.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/Tech..._US&docId=32689

I believe the second URL is more accurate as far as per-page speed is concerned. If I remember correctly, the LaserJet 4P had a 16MHz Intel i960 RISC processor, which is actually a bit slower than the 4Plus (25 MHz) or even the plain 4 (20 MHz).

I own an HP LaserJet 4 Plus, and a plain HP LaserJet 4. They are fantastic printers and were certainly not a waste of money. I bought them both for $25 (total for the pair) from a dot.com blowout auction. I knew they would need some care and attention. I spent about another $350 (again, total for the pair) refurbishing them, and that was to replace everything that was even remotely worn on them. Does that make them a good deal? Probably not to some, but for me it was a thrill to get these beauties and to put them back into top-notch shape. With the possible exception of the L's, V's, and P's (sorry!), the LaserJet 4 series printers are absolute workhorses. They are also so common that HP still sells a fair range of replacement parts (check out http://partsurfer.hp.com/ ) and the toner cartridges are cheap (~$50 to ~$70 and last for thousands of pages) and ubiquitous (even warehouse/club stores often have series 4 cartridges). In their now-refurbished condition, I expect both of these printers to last for at least another 100,000 pages.

This page should help you get a rough age of the printers in the 4 series:

http://h200004.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/Tech...n_US&docId=1020

The other thing you'll want to do is run a Self Test from the control panel of the printer. Aside from checking its tiny brain a bit, this will print out 2 important things about the printer in question:

1) the total number of pages the printer has printed in its lifetime

2) how much RAM is installed

It'll also tell you if an optional PostScript memory module has been installed, or if the printer just has the default PCL capability. (PCL suits me just fine, but some people need/like PostScript.)

With that knowledge, here's a useful point: From those earlier links, you know that the 4P came with 2 MB of RAM installed at the factory. The printer is also rated for 600 DPI max resolution. However, if the 4P is like the others in the LaserJet 4 series, you'll need more than the original 2 MB RAM installed to take full advantage of that maximum resolution. I don't have information about the 4P or others in the series, but here's the deal for my HP LaserJet 4:

OPTIONAL MEMORY REQUIREMENTS:

Full-page (letter-sized) 150-dpi graphics None

Half-page (letter-sized) 300-dpi graphics None

Full-page (letter-sized) 300-dpi graphics None

Full-page (legal-sized) 300-dpi graphics None

Half-page (letter-sized) 600-dpi graphics See Note Below

Full-page (letter-sized) 600-dpi graphics See Note Below

Full-page (legal-sized) 600-dpi graphics See Note Below

NOTE:

The optional memory required for the HP

LaserJet printers is directly influenced

by the complexity of the graphics and

soft fonts being used. SIMM

specifications for the HP LaserJet 4

printer are 72-pin, 36-bit, and 80 nS.

Presence detect must also be available

on the SIMM.

This was one of the sneaky things HP did back when it was a big deal that any printer could do "high" resolution graphics (i.e. they could get away with this back then). What this means is, if you want to be guaranteed the ability to print a half page or more of 600 DPI graphics, the memory that comes in the printer by default is not sufficient. You have to upgrade the RAM. So yes ... check to see how much memory is installed in the printer. If it's only the default amount, you probably won't be able to get the maximum resolution out of it - at least not with complex graphics. If you do wind up buying a LaserJet 4 of some type, and need some compatible RAM, let me know. I've still got some 4 MB SIMMs that will work in the 4 series that I could sell. It's hit or miss as to whether any old type of SIMM will work or not because it needs to be A) parity RAM, and B) support the evil "presence detect" function.

Now that I've paused writing I'm not sure if anything I've said here is helpful or not. ;-) I mentioned that I don't think the 4P is quite as good as some of the other models in the 4 series, but other factors come into play there - like how old the printer is, how many pages it's printed in its lifetime, whether it has extra RAM, etc. Tough call really. If it were a plain 4, 4 Plus, 4MP, or 4Si, I'd say there's a strong reason to consider taking it. For a 4P, I'd really look strongly at how the price works in with the age, page count, RAM, whether it still has manuals, etc..

In case it's helpful, to understand some of the variant model names for the HP LaserJet 6's and earlier, here are some personal notes I came up with (very unofficial):

A "P" in the name means "Personal" use (i.e. not industrial use).

A "V" in the name means "Value" (i.e. not heavy use).

An "M" in the name means "Macintosh" (i.e. it's got PostScript capability).

An "L" in the name means ... well ... "Lemon" (eeww!).

An "N" in the name means "Network" (i.e. has networking capability by default).

An "Si" in the name means "Seriously Intense" (i.e. you could print enough paper to wallpaper a small town with this guy)

The above descriptions I came up with for model numbers only work for the HP LaserJet Series 4, 5, and 6. They don't apply to the 2xxx, 4xxx, 5xxx Series, etc. or others.

Final thought (I swear): Do NOT consider any HP LaserJet III or earlier. They are too old and slow (and heavy!) to be worth the trouble.

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I can recommend the Kyocera Mita FS-1000 laser. Very cheap, excellent print quality, and you only need to replace the toner cartridge, the developer drum is amorphous silicon and good for 300,000 pages or something crazy like that. This is an 8ppm machine. There is a new one called the FS-1010 which has a 10ppm engine. You definitely don't want to be printing normal black text on an inkjet printer, the cost per page is insane. You will soon get your money back on a laser. Not to mention the speed increase. Also it comes with 4MB and can be increased by 128MB thru a 168pin DIMM. I got one for my mum and I'm about to get another for myself.

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For lowest cost per page, go with the Oki C7000 or C9000 LED printers. The latter series handles tabloid media (12"x 18") up to 54 lb. US Bond.

Oki also licenses its LED technology to Xerox, but Xerox charges considerably more money for replacement toner cartridges.

Since LED technology allows single pass color printing, LED printers do not have the registration problems of laser color printers. They also have no rotating mirrors and fewer moving parts. My LED printer pumps out color copies at 21 pages per minute, 1200 x 1200 dpi. I have a choice of using a parallel, USB or ethernet interface. Since my motherboard has an ethernet port I chose this highest speed option.

Oki's LED printers use standard DIMM memory, so memory expansion is cheap. A built-in duplexer and hard drive also are options. Resolutions of 600dpi or 1200 dpi can be selected.

Oki's support also is exceptional.

Hope this information is of use. Joe.

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Final thought (I swear):  Do NOT consider any HP LaserJet III or earlier.  They are too old and slow (and heavy!) to be worth the trouble.

Earlier Laserjets can be slow all day long. And they are bulky. But they will work until the end of time. It's unreal how often I still see Laserjets and Laserjet IIs still in service.

Last November I saw a Laserjet (original Laserjet) take a spill off a waist-high counter. The casing was dinged up but once I plugged it in, it still printed a self-test page.

Try that with an HP6P!

New personal laser printers are built like crappy inkjets. Cheap, cheap, cheap.

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If you'd like, I'm absolutely certain I can find it a good home for it. I build a pretty fair number of PCs for people who could charitably be called "dirt poor".

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Hah ... thanks Mercutio, that's very brave of you to offer. The last person who tried to move it didn't expect it to be so heavy and almost hurt their back. Fortunately the reason it's in the hallway is because I've been planning for weeks to take it to a local charity store that accepts computer equipment. Thanks though!

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LaserJet II's heavy?

Find yourself an IBM 8512. Now THAT'S a heavy printer.

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If you get something too old like an "HP Laserjet 4L" you can expect the following features:

1. at 300 dpi, graphics aren't presentable

2. paper comes out curled at the top of the page

3. if too much data is spooled to the printer, such as multiple pdf documents, the printer will run out of memory and print garbly gook out.

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Earlier Laserjets can be slow all day long. And they are bulky. But they will work until the end of time. It's unreal how often I still see Laserjets and Laserjet IIs still in service. 

Very, very true...

I've seen my share of LJ II and LJ III printers with a million plus pages printed, and still going strong...

I've been told about a few with 5 million plus pages, and while I didn't see them personally, I believe it...

Those things were built like tanks, and if you take care of them, they really will last until the end of time... :)

That being said, I'd personally take a LJ 4+ simply because of the higher speed (12ppm) and the higher resolution (600 dpi). They are built rather well and I've seen them printing all day long in offices. I've sold quite a few of them back in the day, and never had one break on a customer...

Of course, they are big, bulky, heavy, and a pain for home use... That is my choice for a work printer... (or a 4000 if I need 1200 dpi)

For home use, you just cannot beat the Okidata LED printers... The quality is good, the toner is cheap, and I've never seen one of them die either... The older 6ppm and 8ppm models actually seem to be better quality than the newer ones, and you can get them absurdly cheap on eBay these days...

Jason

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If you get something too old like an "HP Laserjet 4L" you can expect the following features:

1. at 300 dpi, graphics aren't presentable

2. paper comes out curled at the top of the page

3. if too much data is spooled to the printer, such as multiple pdf documents, the printer will run out of memory and print garbly gook out.

The LJ 4L was an insult to the LJ 4 line of printers...

HP made a crap printer and put that name on it to try and push crap on unsuspecting customers... :(

For a printer the size and power of the 4L, an Okidata LED printer is a MUCH better choice...

Jason

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My Okidata OL400e now makes a great monitor stand. My Okidata experience was that although the toner cartridges were cheap and the print quality good, it was prone to toner spillage on to the printer drum..., and i'm not the only person to experience thsi annoying problem: perhaps Okidata has since cured it. It also developed an ear-piercing sscreech, and when the toner drum needed replacement it cost 90%$ of the original cost of the printer. I went to the Lexmark E310- excellent print quality, quiet, fast, reliable, and upgradeable memory to 64mb, now probably replaced by the E312, etc, etc. However I think that the general rule is: you get what you pay for- Lexmark's high end printers are excellent- low end are low end, and the cartridges, etc. are not inexpensive in the long run. I'm curious about the Kyocera printer and its long-life toner drum, any user reviews?? RK.

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Another happy Laserjet user here - I spent 2 years of my life servicing them. There's not many things that go wrong - usually fuser damage, worn pickup rollers, or dirty registration units.

We have an old used 4Si at work - takes 2 reams of paper (that's 1000 sheets for those not familiar with a ream), has duplex as standard. It's elderly, but has a low page count for a 4Si at 110,000.

Back when I worked at printers, I regularly serviced a pair of 4Si printers which printed constantly for about 18 hours a day. New fuser every 6 weeks, new toner cart every 2 weeks, and pickup rollers every 3 months. One of them was the first printers I've seen to go round the clock twice! Yep, 2 million pages and still going.

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Frank:

http://www.vnunet.com/Products/Hardware/1111979

The newer FS-1010 has a 200MHz PowerPC processor. The FS-1000 has a 75MHz PPC. Also the FS-1000 class has a drum life of 100,000 pages. Their bigger office machines are good for 300,000.

Actually I bought the Kyocera on the back of the recommendation by Tony. Definitely no regrets! :D

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A technician at a repair center told me to stick with a business class HP or Okidata and avoid Brothers and Toshibas all together becuase of parts availity and quality of design.

I don't know what your tech is doing to the Borthers, but I have 5 of them, 3 1240's a 1440 and a 1650. All of them are super printers and just keep on going.

I have had several HP lasers over the years, and I see them as being any better then what brother is offering today. I also have owned an Okidata, while it was a good printer it did bit the dust after about three years of use.

Panasonic is now making two lasers with built in duplexing, one of them is a 15 PPM that sells for 249.99.

Don't look at high cost as a factor to buy a laser, they have been around long enough and they sell enough now days that the prices are not so high, unless you are buying HP who is just taking advantage of their customers by over charging them.

For me it is Brother Laser Printers.

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Guest russofris
I've seen my share of LJ II and LJ III printers with a million plus pages printed, and still going strong...

I've been told about a few with 5 million plus pages, and while I didn't see them personally, I believe it...

6,807,224 on my old LJ2.... I used to be a HP certified printer tech (8 years ago?) so I have an unfair advantage. I have reassembled this thing numerous times, and I believe 20% of the parts in it are actually from apple laserwriters (almost the same printer). I also have a stack of 12 font carts (look like atari 2600 games).

Frank Russo

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I can recommend the Kyocera Mita FS-1000 laser ... This is an 8ppm machine. There is a new one called the FS-1010 which has a 10ppm engine ... Also it comes with 4MB and can be increased by 128MB thru a 168pin DIMM.

The FS-1000 is a 12ppm and the FS-1010 14ppm. The FS-1010 has 16MB base RAM, expandable to 272MB :!: With the 200MHz PPC CPU, half the power of a PowerMAC in a printer - not bad ...

Unfortunately, I unintentionally misled you earlier Pradeep - these newer printers use standard 100-pin DIMMs, not 168 - sorry. :(

100-pin DIMMs cost about the same as laptop SO-DIMMs. A 32MB costs about US$30 and a 64MB US$45. The FS-1010 costs about US$40 more than the FS-1000, so with its 16MB and Postscript as standard it may suit you better.

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I bought an HP laserjet 1000, on boxing day, and Iam dissappointed with it. If your going to buy a laserjet, dont buy the cheap one, but the next one up (the laserjet 1200 forexample, is a much better printer)

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