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griffous

Seagate barracuda IV raiding, highpoint controller

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*sigh*

Sadly I decided to raid on the day that these forums went down, I have since seen many a link refering me here to the now non-existant thread of known problems with my 2x barracuda IV's and raiding.

I am using an abit kt7a-raid (yeah, I know...abit) and thus a highpoint hpt 370 raid controller.

I am using winxp, with the v2.3 drivers which helped big time for just normal single ide acceess on the hpt controller btw.

My puzzling results are as such.

HDTACH 2.61:

Highpoint controller,

Single drive barracuda IV (40gb)

max: 42588

average: 36575

Raided, 2x barracuda IV (40gb)

max: 38686

average: 25747,

burst rate was similar.

So what gives anyone?

I used a 64kb strip as recommended by anandtech for this controller.

I'm using NTFS as I figured that would be better, with a 4kb cluster.

Possibly I'm doing something wrong here, but according to http://www.viahardware.com/faq/kt7/faqhpt3...0.htm#barracuda it's a known problem.

I would really like to raid the disks, and I'm using some loaned storage in the mean time, if anyone is able to help I'd greatly appreciate it, my first entry into raid isn't really looking that great and if I can't fix this in the next 2 days I'm going to have to return my borrowed storage, shutting down the possibility of raid.

Thanks,

Jonathan

sheik@ihug.co.nz

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Sorry to hear of the trouble...

You're right, the Cuda IV and RAID just don't work together...

You'll need to get another drive to be able to use RAID...

Seagate of course denies any problem, but test after test shows it is the drive, not the controller...

Jason

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With 2 Bara IV and Highpoint/Promise we have had absolutely no success so far. Unfortunately this is not the only combination that does not work (consistently).

On the otherhand we have 2 members who managed to get decent transfer rates when using WinXP softraid rather than the Highpoint & Promise implementation.

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With 2 Bara IV and Highpoint/Promise we have had absolutely no success so far. Unfortunately this is not the only combination that does not work (consistently). 

On the otherhand we have 2 members who managed to get decent transfer rates when using WinXP softraid rather than the Highpoint & Promise implementation.

Didn't they use seperate controllers to do that? One from the onboard controller, one from a PCI add in card?

If so, that seems like a serious kludge to a problem with the drive in the first place... :x

In any case, Seagate should be ashamed for not making a firmware correction to this problem...

Jason

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In any case, Seagate should be ashamed for not making a firmware correction to this problem...

Jason

OH yes, yes yes.

Well it would indeed appear that it's seagate's bad from this thread thus far. I'd still like to hear if anyone has any other thoughts, I read somewhere that changing the "pci something-or-rather latancy" in bios can help?

Jonathan

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Thanks for that Teo,

I can't twist your arm into doing some HD TACH ones too can I? :) even if it is just final product current software raid combo.

Unfortunately I can't bring myself to rely on windows raid. if it dies, I'm kinda rooted aren't I. Although I am far from a highpoint raid supporter, but at least it is "dead windows" tollerant.

My thinking is correct there right? winxp/2k dies, data dies too? or can it be safely rebuilt, and if so has anyone actually tested and tried this?

Jonathan.

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Jonathan,

I am sorry but I think there is no way to try a software RAID with HD Tach, since it only shows the drives connected to the controller. It does "not" show the software RAID that is a logical drive.

About the rebuilt, I have not tried it. But I have read that if you connect drives that are RAIDed on another Windows 2000 machine, W2000 will aksyou to rebuilt the RAID. This might be true as long as you do not have security restrictions for the original RAID.

Anyway, always have a pair of "Emergency Repair Disk" sets.

Teo

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So bascially I'm fighting a losing battle here?

Does anyone have any further info, is Seagate making any annoncements/firmware upgrades??, or is it going to be for the rest of time that of all the HD's in the world, I picked the lemon :( and I should just accept defeat?

Jonathan

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Got similer results as others poor raid 0,1 with SBIV+HP370. single drive performs Quite well. IBM gxp75 worked very well in RAID 0 T'ill drive failure. Tryed Drivers,BIOS OLD and New to no avail. My best Guess is the SBIV firmware would need to fix some sort of timing issue the drives have when used in RAID setups. I cannot see how Seagate could have not known this would be a issue as its so easy to reproduce. :(

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My puzzling results are as such.

HDTACH 2.61:

Highpoint controller,

Single drive barracuda IV (40gb)

max: 42588

average: 36575

I use the same mobo as yours with my 60GXP, in a single drive I got STR

max: 48MB/s

average 38MB/s

max burst 87MB/s

I have heard that cuda IV has been so fast on the bursting rate so that some controllers are not able to keep up to it, epsically in RAID formation, that makes it perform even worst than a single drive.

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I have heard that cuda IV has been so fast on the bursting rate

A burst will typically reach the theoretical max. of a particular interface. A statement made by a Seagate technician some time ago in this forum was made in order to flatter.

As skallas pointed out the root of the problem is extremely likely a software problem (probably the drive firmware or at least partly), which is something i believe myself. I say partly because it seems that the combination still seems to work well in particular environments as mentioned above.

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Same slow performance (~30MB/s) on my system:

Soyo K7V Dragon Plus! motherboard w/ Promise "Lite" BIOS

RAID0 w/ 2-80GB Seagate Barracuda IV ATA100 drives.

Please help or is the only solution is to replace the drives with another brand (which one?)

Thanks...

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The Maxtor D740X drives do well in RAID, and cost about the same as the Cuda IV drives... :)

Jason

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cowboyrx and others,

well according to all that have inputted so far, looks like that is the basicu underlying theme.

the damn seagates just don't like raid. I am SURE there must be a way around this in some work-around kind of a manner, but apparently not. I did try winxp raid with one drive per controller, so one on the highpoint, and one on the standard ide controller.

My results were the best so far, I have 2x 40gb, and for the first 30gb or so, I had a constand 46meg/sec then it kinda jumps around a bit until 45gbish, and then works it's way up to a peak around the 65-60 mark of about 60-65meg/sec, and then slowly down to 50/sec to the end of the raid (80).

So an improvement, and although it's probably slack in raiding terms for the raiding regulars here, I was most happy with these big numbers (ignorant is bless ain't it :D )

But no way in hell am I relying on winxp to safely manage 80gb of my data, so back to my 2x 40 36meg(avg)/sec drives I guess,

if anyone finds a firmware patch or a work around, please do email me, and also let the rest of us know :D

Jonathan

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the damn seagates just don't like raid. I am SURE there must be a way around this in some work-around kind of a manner, but apparently not. I did try winxp raid with one drive per controller, so one on the highpoint, and one on the standard ide controller.

Well, I have talked to a Seagate Disk Presales person about Barracuda IV together with a Highpoint RAID controller, and the answer was as follows:

The Barracuda ATA IV drives are a great product to be used in an ATA RAID setup.  The HPT370 chipset seems to be a very popular embedded chipset choice, along with Promise's UltraATA RAID host adapter products.

Don't know what to think about it. Doesn't sound convincing to me ...

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I am having the same problem with my Soyo Dragon+ board with two Barracuda 80gb drives on the onboard RAID. The performance is less than that of a single drive. I am really dissapointed. There is no use having RAID 0 if your not going to at least get some performance gain out of it. All of the other Brand drives in this category seem to be able to RAID so I am not buying "the drive is too fast" argument. I think Maxtors might be faster anyway and they apparently have no problem with Raid.

I wrote the following to Seagates customer service on the web:

========================================================

I have purchased two of your Barracuda ATA 80gb IDE drives to put on a

RAID 0 array. The performance of this drive should be approaching

twice the speed of a single drive. I am finding the performance to be very

bad...in fact less than that of a single drive without RAID. I am

seeing that this is a common problem with these Barracuda drives(see

http://forums.storagereview.net/viewtopic.php?t=85) Is Seagate going

to address this issue? Its a shame that all the other manufacturers of

this type of drive can work great on a RAID but your product fails to

work. I am looking for an answer so that I decide whether to RMA the

drives or keep them.

========================================================

I will update everyone if they decide to reply. I wrote this yesterday to them and have not heard back yet.

-Smiley

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I spoke to a Seagate Presales agent tonight and he warned me away from the IV's for a raid situation. Considering I was about to buy three of the 80 gigs, I was appreciative. They are working on new Serial ATA drives that should be out this year so don't look for a fix to this problem.

I have another post concerning the performance of the Maxtor drives if anyone has any info on that.

Thanks, Thomas

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Does anyone know if the Cuda IV works good in a RAID0 array WITH another manufacturer's ATA100 drive (i.e, Maxtor, IBM, Western Digital, etc..) If so, can I use 1-80GB Cuda IV ATA100 and 1-80GB D740X in a RAID0 to get the "correct" speed or I will be better off getting 2 D740X's to make a RAID0 array?

Thanks...

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You generally should never mix drives like that...

The results will not be predictable...

Jason

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Does anyone know if the Cuda IV works good in a RAID0 array WITH another manufacturer's ATA100 drive (i.e, Maxtor, IBM, Western Digital, etc..) If so, can I use 1-80GB Cuda IV ATA100 and 1-80GB D740X in a RAID0 to get the "correct" speed or I will be better off getting 2 D740X's to make a RAID0 array?

Did anyone check this out along with many other RAID 'solutions' by Seagate on ATA drives:

"SEAGATE SHIPS FIRST ULTRA ATA/100 DISC DRIVES; TEAMS WITH PROMISE TECHNOLOGY TO DEMONSTRATE ATA RAID BENEFITS

Promise chooses Barracuda ATA II disc drives to demonstrate new Ultra ATA/100 and ATA RAID products at Computex"

http://www.seagate.com/cda/newsinfo/newsro...425^4^1,00.html

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That is old... Cuda II drives...

The Cuda II and Cuda III seem to work fine in RAID... Only the Cuda IV has this problem...

Jason

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Shouldn't the IV be better than II and III? Anyway, how about these claims then?

"Seagate is ahead of the industry with the Barracuda ATA IV disc drive, and clearly aims to be a major force in high-performance PC storage. Seagate's SoftSonic FDB motor is a genuine breakthrough in quiet operation," said Mark Geenen, President of TrendFocus, the leading data storage market research firm. "Barracuda ATA IV is the fastest ATA drive to date, which makes a solid all-around solution for performance PCs and entry-level RAID and server applications. Its early launch could help Seagate gain a stronger position than ever in this market."

Taken from:

http://www.seagate.com/cda/newsinfo/newsro...21,1156,00.html

----------------------------------------------

"With its heavy slant on performance, the Seagate Barracuda ATA IV is meant for high-level usage. Its large capacity comes handy as an entry-level fileserver or a RAID system. In areas of personal computing, the drive would benefit users of more resource-intensive applications such as video-editing or high-end gaming."

Taken from:

http://www.seagate.com/cda/newsinfo/newsro...,1300^3,00.html

----------------------------------------------

And if you know Japanese:

http://www.seagate.com/newsinfo/docs/trans...d_ataiv.pdf.pdf

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