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Fujitsu IDE HDDs -- Further information

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Guest Eugene

Since I'm having problems getting any information directly from FCPA, I'll also ask here... anyone hear anything about these problems relating to SCSI drives or are they purely on ATA PCBs?

Thanks,

Eugene

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We understand that the problem is centred upon an EPROM losing setup information. This is apparently borne out by a “white paper” on Fujitsu’s support site which also contains “ a firmware modification which will improve product reliability”, termed Fujitsu HDD Flash, which is applicable to the MPG3xxx drives manufactured before February 2001, here:http://www.fel.fujitsu.com/home/drivers.asp?L=en&CID=1

I think all the Fujitsu's that I have built with are dated later than Feb2001. Does this mean that I wont havve any problems or at least that I can expect fewer problems?

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Any board from the same drive type ie MPG, MPF will do. The difference is basically within the code on board which is the seat of this problem. The platters and heads etc. are the.

If in doubt check the full specification of each drive in the picobird series, but as a rule heads, platters (disks) and ribbon connections are all youre interested in.

Cheers for that, we'll be getting the other drive in to the lab on monday, be one less problem if this works and we can just fire up the dead drive and pull out its data.

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:twisted:

I work in a computer shop and we all know about Fujitsu HDD you know the TINY or TIME company thay use Fujitsu HD and the most thing we are replacing is Fujitsu Hdd AFTER 12 to 14 of having the computer its like thay are timed to F up after that time it gets us and we fix err Replace it we know that it is a Fujitsu before we open the case up (we did try Fujitsu becoes thay was cheap and that = crap)

any way

:twisted:

for good tip dont buy Fujitsu ever dont buy and IBM (the GX serise are stinker my 60gb IBM has a fulty ide connetor 50:50 chance) and dont get MAXTOR (some work some dont 50:50 chance as well after 4 months)

But with the other hdd apart from fujitsu you get a 3 year G

:twisted:

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Use the IBM drive feature tool.  It allows you to change the size settings on many non-IBM drives.

Thank you for your time,

Frank Russo

Frank,

Thanks for this great tip! Worked like a charm, now have 40GB WD EB drives to replace the 20GB Fujitsus!!

Ian

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Since I'm having problems getting any information directly from FCPA, I'll also ask here... anyone hear anything about these problems relating to SCSI drives or are they purely on ATA PCBs?

Thanks,

Eugene

Eugene,

I asked the Fujitsu tech about this when he came by (this was before you posted this question). He said it was only IDE drives with the Cirrus Logic chip that were failing.

Kinda feel for the guy actually -- all he is doing these days is going out to customer sites and doing mass hard drive replacements. Not the most exciting work, to say the least.

Ian

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We bought 2 Compaq pc's at the end of 2000 I think. One of them had the fujitsu hdd in it pack up with these symptons about 6 months ago, the other has just started to fail (clicks, freezes, NT atapi errors logged etc) The model number is MPG3102AH - I think it's a 10 gig drive.

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Hi, everybody!

The fault with the drives isn`t in the Cirrus Logic controller chip ONLY.

In many cases this drive have problems with SA (system area) modules -

they can damaged by many factors and drive fail to start-up initialization.

This is not a BUG, it`s like a feature ;-) and repaired in about 99.9% cases.

But problems with CirrusLogic chip are real. By the way, there are two

revision of this chip:

CL-SH8671-450E-A3

CL-SH8671-450E-A4

I know exaclty the difference is in the MASK code within the core. MASK

code allow to manage a low-level operation in drive SafeMode and starting

main firmware code from FlashROM.

I reverse Fujitsu MPG3xxx (AT,AH & AV) firmware code, MaskCode and

collect some specific Fujitsu bugs and nice undocumented features.

The common problems are:

* Spontaneous and repeatable SpinDown/SpinUp sequence. (Fatal, PCB)

* Error while programming flash chip. Original FlashROM data erased by

MaskCode, but transferred data from interface isn`t

programmed. (Fatal, PCB)

* Drive not detected. Problems with system information on the plates (in

firmware zone). Recoverable in 99.9% cases.

* Drive can`t to SpinUp after power on. Firmware code in FlashROM

damaged or PCB fault (i.e. CirrusLogic chip). Recoverable.

* Drive come to "READY" state very fast (DRDY/DSC bits in status port),

but spindle is not running. And drive not responded to 0xEC (IDENTIFY

DEVICE) command (BIOS and ALL utilites says "Drive not ready/not

detected"). This problem is happen because firmware code in FlashROM

damaged. Recoverable.

Hmmmm... Something else ? Maybe, but it`s too large for one message...

P.S. Sorry for bad English. ;-) It`s not my native language...

BTW, Mishail Mavritsin

===============

HDD Service Engineer

Russia, Moscow

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Guest russofris
Use the IBM drive feature tool.  It allows you to change the size settings on many non-IBM drives.

Thank you for your time,

Frank Russo

Frank,

Thanks for this great tip! Worked like a charm, now have 40GB WD EB drives to replace the 20GB Fujitsus!!

Ian

You may wish to make a seperate posting to let everyone know your results.

Thank you for your time,

Frank Russo

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We bought 2 Compaq pc's at the end of 2000 I think.  One of them had the fujitsu hdd in it pack up with these symptons about 6 months ago, the other has just started to fail (clicks, freezes, NT atapi errors logged etc)  The model number is MPG3102AH - I think it's a 10 gig drive.

Clicks - you hear the knocking of HDA (head assembly) and spindle while

drive fault to thermal calibration, lose a ServoMark signal or fault to Seek

to bad track.

Freezes - because of drive spontaneously stop and restart the spindle

motor. It`s indicates the problems with PCB (CirrusLogic chip).

I`ll recommend to you to change this drives or send it to repair :-).

WBR, Mishail Mavritsin

=================

HDD Service Engineer

Russia, Moscow

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I reverse Fujitsu MPG3xxx (AT,AH & AV) firmware code, MaskCode and

collect some specific Fujitsu bugs and nice undocumented features.

Oh wow, that's some pretty low-level hacking. Is there any possibility you could investigate bugs in the IBM 75/60/120GXP firmware revisions?

Specifically the ones that can apparently cause the drive to get stuck in "write mode", when power is removed from the drive, and therefore wipe a good portion of the servo info (among other things) when the heads retract?

My 30GXP had some old firmware, and I flashed it with the newest generic OEM firmware upgrade, to fix the supposed problem with the drive possibly wiping user data sectors during SMART and other internal self-test operations. It died not more than a month after that. Now, I have sector errors in the reserved sectors used to store where the defective user sectors are on the drive! You can hear it re-seek during a DFT full test, when it hits the part "reading internal error logs" (or something like that).

I have also had problems, instant red RMA screen, while running DFT full-erase. My guess is that it encountered a sector with an unrecoverable error, and couldn't store that sector's address in the reserved sectors properly (kind of like a double-fault in an Intel CPU), so it instantly errored.

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I reverse Fujitsu MPG3xxx (AT,AH & AV) firmware code, MaskCode and

collect some specific Fujitsu bugs and nice undocumented features.

Oh wow, that's some pretty low-level hacking. Is there any possibility you could investigate bugs in the IBM 75/60/120GXP firmware revisions?

Specifically the ones that can apparently cause the drive to get stuck in "write mode", when power is removed from the drive, and therefore wipe a good portion of the servo info (among other things) when the heads retract?

My 30GXP had some old firmware, and I flashed it with the newest generic OEM firmware upgrade, to fix the supposed problem with the drive possibly wiping user data sectors during SMART and other internal self-test operations. It died not more than a month after that. Now, I have sector errors in the reserved sectors used to store where the defective user sectors are on the drive! You can hear it re-seek during a DFT full test, when it hits the part "reading internal error logs" (or something like that).

I have also had problems, instant red RMA screen, while running DFT full-erase. My guess is that it encountered a sector with an unrecoverable error, and couldn't store that sector's address in the reserved sectors properly (kind of like a double-fault in an Intel CPU), so it instantly errored.

Larry, REVERSE ENGINEERING is NOT A HACK.

I don`t use this information in commerce. But it VERY interesting

to know the REAL way of hdd`s life ;-)

Hmmm... I know about most of IBM bugs.

Many of these may repaired in 10-15 min without lost of user

information;-)

IBM internal error log called as "ELG1" and internal event log

called as "EVLG". This modules a part of IBM firmware and it can

repaired in many cases. ;-)

Information about reassigned defects stored in RDMT module (Reassigned DefectMap Table).

If you want to remove all unrecoverable errors indicated in SMART reports (for example), try to execute this sequence of ATA commands:

1) SECURITY ERASE PREPARE

2) FORMAT UNIT - documented cmd 0xF7. Use 0x11 in Features register to MERGE Grown defects (G-List) to Primary Defect List (P-list). You lost all of your information on drive, but after this drive looks as NEW 8-)

Bye.

P.S. Check my old web site on http://pcjs.chat.ru and look for IBM

specific "feature" - crazy defects count in Primary Defect List. The

second IBM`s "feature" - very many reassigned defects.

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Is this the source of the click-screech, grinding, drive not being seen by BIOS problems?

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Larry, REVERSE ENGINEERING is NOT A HACK.

I don`t use this information in commerce. But it VERY interesting

to know the REAL way of hdd`s life ;-)

Sorry you misunderstood, I meant that comment about "low-level hacking" as a compliment. I consider that "good hacking".

Hmmm... I know about most of IBM bugs.

Many of these may repaired in 10-15 min without lost of user

information;-)

IBM internal error log called as "ELG1" and internal event log

called as "EVLG". This modules a part of IBM firmware and it can

repaired in many cases. ;-)

Information about reassigned defects stored in RDMT module (Reassigned DefectMap Table).

If you want to remove all unrecoverable errors indicated in SMART reports (for example), try to execute this sequence of ATA commands:

1) SECURITY ERASE PREPARE

2) FORMAT UNIT - documented cmd 0xF7. Use 0x11 in Features register to MERGE Grown defects (G-List) to Primary Defect List (P-list). You lost all of your information on drive, but after this drive looks as NEW  8-)

Bye.

P.S. Check my old web site on http://pcjs.chat.ru and look for IBM

specific "feature" - crazy defects count in Primary Defect List. The

second IBM`s "feature" - very many reassigned defects.

Very intresting info, thanks! (I wish I could find out that much about a HDs internal workings.)

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P.S. Check my old web site on http://pcjs.chat.ru and look for IBM

specific "feature" - crazy defects count in Primary Defect List. The

second IBM`s "feature" - very many reassigned defects.

Ever looked into the 120g ibm 120gxp? I have one, which occasionally makes strange noises like it's powered down and back up for a second. DFT says it's ok, the SMART monitoring tool from IBM says it's healthy, but my ears don't! What is the application you used to get those disk surface images? Is it available for download anywhere?

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A word of caution about the disk error images. Every drive has those error, even ones that work fine(and will continue to work fine for many a day). I'd worry more about significant changes in the quantity and location of the errors, rather than the absolute number of errors themselves.

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How do All,

Being a newbie I would like to say hello first..... "Hello"

Right I have been having some major grief with my system.

The system will run fine for a few hours with no problems, usually just long enough to get WinME patched up with Windows update, the first sign things are going bad is the mouse and the PC as a whole becomes slow and jerky, looking at the HDD light, rather than flashing randomly when accessing the disk it will flash at a constant rate. At around this point I usually get a yellow error box come up saying such and such has caused an error in blah and will close, at this point the system will either freeze or run even slower. Either way if I go to reboot it will fail with disk corruption.

Being away from home at the moment I cant see if my drive had the defective chip to check....

The drive is about 18 months old BTW.

Does this sound like the same problem at the MPG3204AT drives are having ?

This saga has been going on since Augst and I am desperate to get it resolved any comments.

Thanks,

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P.S. Check my old web site on http://pcjs.chat.ru and look for IBM

specific "feature" - crazy defects count in Primary Defect List. The

second IBM`s "feature" - very many reassigned defects.

Ever looked into the 120g ibm 120gxp? I have one, which occasionally makes strange noises like it's powered down and back up for a second. DFT says it's ok, the SMART monitoring tool from IBM says it's healthy, but my ears don't! What is the application you used to get those disk surface images? Is it available for download anywhere?

Hmmm...

I use the vendor specific software, it`s confidential.

But I can post P/G-DEFECT LIST images from some AVVA and AVVN drives.

Interesting ?

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The failure rate on these disks is also said to be around 50%, a lot worse than even the 75 GXP.

75GXP failure rate is less than 50%? I would have expected around 80% from everything I've read/seen...

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P.S. Check my old web site on http://pcjs.chat.ru and look for IBM

specific "feature" - crazy defects count in Primary Defect List. The

second IBM`s "feature" - very many reassigned defects.

Very interesting defect map images. One is truely bizzare, with 20 obvious radial spokes of defects. For a 30GB drive the number of servo wedges must be much higher, why those twenty spokes have such high defect levels, I can only imagine a bizarre firmware issue as the cause.

DAFS

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In addition to incidence of failure of the MPG3xx hard drives, I am trying to find out whether or not there is any geographical "limitation", esp. whether or not problem is confined to Europe/Asia, or "humid" zones (although from our clients' experiences in US, certainly seems not to be limited in any way whatsoever).

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P.S. Check my old web site on http://pcjs.chat.ru and look for IBM

specific "feature" - crazy defects count in Primary Defect List. The

second IBM`s "feature" - very many reassigned defects.

Very interesting defect map images. One is truely bizzare, with 20 obvious radial spokes of defects. For a 30GB drive the number of servo wedges must be much higher, why those twenty spokes have such high defect levels, I can only imagine a bizarre firmware issue as the cause.

DAFS

I noticed that "interesting" image as well. My theory is that those defects had something to do with the media/platter OEM, perhaps as a byproduct of some sort of mechanical-handling issue. I once got a spindle of CDR media that had a group of radial patterns of what appeared to be residue from dirty suction-cups, as would be used in some sort of mechanical handling apparatus at the packing factory.

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Hi,

any suggestions where I can find answers to the following questions?

* Who knows something about the changed housingmaterial from Sumitomo?

When and how did they change the composition?

What did they approve after recognising these affects?

Who knows something more about the reason of this bad reliability?

* Who knows something more about the failure rates?

What is an correct suspected range? What did other companies trace?

Raises the failure rate in summertime and humid month?

* Which companies are involved in this problem?

What are you going to do for getting back your qualitycosts?

Background (as I'm informed):

There exists problems with the reliability and the failure rates of the hard disks MPG3xxx from Fujitsu. There are failure rates up to 86%.

The Reason is the the housingmaterial of the controllerchip. The compound of the material was changed (improvement of the properties against fire). It was added phosphor (as I´m informed).

We´re manufactures of industrial PC and also had used the MPG3xx-HDD. After a period especially in summertime die fault rate from field of our IPC rises up to 15% peak from productiondate HDD march01 and there are peaks up to 70% at single customers. Fujitsu told us they recognised a

suspected range of HDD from productiondate 9/00 to 3/01.

Greetings + Thanks in advance

Tayula

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