coyote

10TB WD Black alternative?

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Since WD doesn't make Blacks over 6TB, what's the fastest largest (which at the moment I believe is 10TB) desktop mechanical HDD?

I vaguely recall reading that they haven't made larger Blacks because now they're HGST...so is my answer an HGST drive (if so which)?

Cost is a concern so I figure I'm looking for a consumer HDD not an Enterprise HDD. (I can swing $400 to $500, but not twice that.)

I don't plan to use it in NAS or RAID, simply as a storage drive.

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Thank you very much, SgtSixpack!  I like the $329 price (of that HDN721010ALE604 Deskstar).  I think I'll do some digging, because I'm wondering how it's speed. compares to the Ultrastar HUH721010ALE604 $350

I just (oops, sorry!) remembered that for me Seagate's various 10TB models are out (I got an 8TB IronWolf in January, but Seatools for DOS didn't support it...and I'm firmly opposed to deploying HDD's for which I must run HDD diagnostics in Windows (and I was frustrated in my last attempt to create a WinPE with HD Tune on it).

WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for DOS v5.27 supports my 8TB Red HDD (when I first got 6TB Black drive v5.25 did not support it but I phoned and they posted 5.27 the very next day).

I wonder if HGST has it's own bootable HDD diagnostics, or if v5.27 supports the HGST drives.  If not, maybe I'll be stuck buying an (ugh) WD Red (my current one is just an HTPC drive).

Edit: It appears that HGST's old Drive Fitness Test v4.16 does not support drives >2TiB, since I just tried booted to it and it thinks my 6TB Black drive's capacity is "1603 GB".  I'll phone HGST Tech Support when they open on Monday and ask if they have a DOS HDD diagnostics (or if WD's) will support their 10TB HDDs.  

If not...I'm afraid I'll be left deciding between WD's 7200rpm 10TB drives:  Red Pro and Gold.

Edited by coyote

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HGST does have a 12TB enterprise drive out, currently running $630 on ebay. I've yet to see it in the regular channels. Look for HGST He12

If you are looking for large economical storage, drives in the 6-8 TB range are approaching half the price-per-TB of that He12. A RAID array in a NAS would get you more storage, and probably at a lower price. Admittedly with more noise.

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5 minutes ago, reader50 said:

HGST does have a 12TB enterprise drive out, currently running $630 on ebay. I've yet to see it in the regular channels. Look for HGST He12

If you are looking for large economical storage, drives in the 6-8 TB range are approaching half the price-per-TB of that He12. A RAID array in a NAS would get you more storage, and probably at a lower price. Admittedly with more noise.

Thank you very much for your reply, reader50!   I'd happily wait for a 12TB HGST...if the concern I just added to my last post (regarding bootable diagnostics) is met.

And you're right, I probably should have switched to a NAS long ago.  One reason I haven't is I'm not thrilled about LAN transfer speeds.  Oh, and cost.

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4 minutes ago, Brian said:

Man, we haven't seen HGST 3.5" drives to review in a while. 

Well, SR's 8TB WD Gold HDD Review from last December is a treasure.  (I googled it when looking for performance comparisons between the WD Gold and Red Pro, in case my above-stated principle against buying drives I can't run diagnostics on outside my OS ends up ruling out HGST [it's already ruled out Seagate] too.)

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19 minutes ago, reader50 said:

From retail drive pictures, the WD Gold appear to be rebranded HGST He drives.

Very interesting, thank you very much reader50.

It would be nice if I find that WD's DOS diagnostics supports HGST too.

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On 8/19/2017 at 6:38 AM, coyote said:

Edit: It appears that HGST's old Drive Fitness Test v4.16 does not support drives >2TiB, since I just tried booted to it and it thinks my 6TB Black drive's capacity is "1603 GB".  I'll phone HGST Tech Support when they open on Monday and ask if they have a DOS HDD diagnostics (or if WD's) will support their 10TB HDDs.  

If not...I'm afraid I'll be left deciding between WD's 7200rpm 10TB drives:  Red Pro and Gold.

As planned, I phoned HGST Tech Support this morning.  They said they do NOT have a DOS HDD diagnostics that will support their HDDs >2TiB (nor they said will WD's).

So...I'm leaning toward a WD Gold over a WD Red Pro.  If the Gold's rebranding is a problem for WD's DOD HDD diagnostics, I'll return it (and report here).

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Why is it important to a have a DOS based utility?  If its a case of needing to run tests on a unformatted single drive pc then a bootable USB flash drive with an operating system on and the bios set to boot from it should do the trick.

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1 hour ago, SgtSixpack said:

Why is it important to a have a DOS based utility?  If its a case of needing to run tests on a unformatted single drive pc then a bootable USB flash drive with an operating system on and the bios set to boot from it should do the trick.

Good question. (And that's just one reason; often Windows won't boot if one of it's NON-system HDD has issues calling for diagnostics.)

Back when HDD were no larger than 2TB, I used to use HD Tune on the MiniXP OS of Hiren's Boot CD (and it was a nice place to format drives, and do other diagnostics, too).  

With the advent of HDD > 2TB, of course I'd like to have HD Tune on a bootable WinPE USB or CD.  But years ago when I tried long and hard to create a bootable (IIRC BART) PE I failed; and I'm so busy now it would not be easy to give Win PE another go (particularly if I'd turn out to be still inept at creating bootable media).

3 years ago I posted during my subsequent search here.

So a few weeks back I googled long and hard to find/download a bootable WinPE with HD Tune on it.  (And not Win10; one of my PC's can't run anything newer than 8.1, the other can't run anything newer than 7.)  Again no luck.  Maybe I didn't try long enough without "HD Tune" as a search term.

I'm kinda amazed that Hiren's hasn't had a popular successor with a more recent Win OS.  I guess, though, that all the other people aware of the need for bootable tools aren't too inept to create them.

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Well firstly if you can get into the OS then I think this thread has you covered:

http://www.win-raid.com/t1350f38-Tip-for-Win-How-to-detect-and-repair-corrupted-system-files.html

 

I've created a windows 7 image from this thread using nLite, I intergrated drivers and all the current w7 updates at the time of creation:

http://www.win-raid.com/t750f25-Guide-Integration-of-drivers-into-a-Win-image.html

Its doable but takes some spare time.  Worth it for peace of mind.  Although personally I have multiple installs of w7 (use the one on SSD, easyBCD can create a boot menu to chose OS drive (tangent install each OS as a single drive so it is bootable as a single drive not needing files stored on another disk)), and a DVD-RW copy but no backup on USB stick.  I think if you got into trouble just ask in that thread, that forum has a very capable admin and users for this topic.  As a side note, there is a program to batch download updates to 7,8 or 10 and then you just copy them to the correct directory and follow the guide.  Nowadays USB would be the go to cause I'm sure not every pc comes with a DVD drive.

 

Edit: I'm confident you will find win PE as an option within nLite, also there is the opportunity to silently install programs i.e. HD tune.  I never knew HD tune was more than a benching program.

 

Edit2: Your problem of " one of my PC's can't run anything newer than 8.1, the other can't run anything newer than 7 " will probably be unraveled by the good peeps on this forum.  If I had to take an educated guess I would be looking at getting the right intel RST(e) drivers (assuming you're not on an AMD machine).

Have a look here (to get the most up to date windows patches before you install): http://www.windowsupdatesdownloader.com/

 

Edit (above link might be a bit of a chore this video maybe better, can't say either way as I'm in the process of doing it myself) :

 

Edited by SgtSixpack

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Thank you VERY much for your reply, SgtSixpack!  It's like you read my mind; overnight I got to thinking about having given up on creating bootable media, and resolved to find a "for dummies guide" and give it my best again. One of these weeks.

As for 

Quote

Well firstly if you can get into the OS then I think this thread has you covered:

http://www.win-raid.com/t1350f38-Tip-for-Win-How-to-detect-and-repair-corrupted-system-files.html

Sorry I'm afraid I wasn't clear enough.  I was simply explaining that my need for bootable diagnostic media isn't simply "a case of needing to run tests on a...single drive pc".  I was trying to explain that bootable media can be required to run diagnostics on even a storage (non-system) HDD, because over the years I've found that often (on some systems) "Windows won't boot if one of it's NON-system HDD has issues calling for diagnostics" (by which I meant bad sectors, which I can only thus identify/find with bootable media diagnostics).

As for my problem of "one of my PC's can't run anything newer than 8.1, the other can't run anything newer than 7"; I've accepted it.  With the 8.1 machine for example, I gave it every spare minute I had all summer 2016; one guy on a forum applauded me for my persistence and thoroughness.  (These are pretty old PC's; my finances are tight.)  With the other PC, maybe I could get it to go beyond 7, I honestly didn't give it nearly as much exhaustive effort, but I just don't think it's worth it given how overwhelmingly busy I am.  I'm prepared to put it out to pasture when Win7 goes EOL.

Edit: I just phoned WD Tech Support.  They said their bootable (DOS) hard drive diagnostics supports not only the the WD lines of Red and Gold hard drives, but also supports HGST hard drives.  Oh, I am undeterred from my resolve to make my own bootable media with HD Tune on it, particularly since, as I mentioned on another thread "I found that unlike some manufacturer's drive diagnostics, it reports ANY errors (apparently some manufacturer only report errors above some amount)."

Edited by coyote

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10 hours ago, coyote said:

 because over the years I've found that often (on some systems) "Windows won't boot if one of it's NON-system HDD has issues calling for diagnostics" (by which I meant bad sectors, which I can only thus identify/find with bootable media diagnostics).

Well I've come across the same situation of a non-bootable OS when I remove the SATA cable or even just swap cables round.  I believe windows will find the first disk and put its boot sector? on it and then carry on installing the OS to the drive you chose.  As I said above if you install the OS with nothing else connected (either physical cable unplug or bios disable of sata channel) then the boot sector? is always on the same drive as the OS was installed.  This doesn't stop you using easyBCD to have a list of OS to choose from after the bios screen.

If you install like this you shouldn't find a problem booting into windows from the OS disk with a corrupt disk which is not the OS disk still plugged in.  I'm not saying making a windows PE USB flash drive is unnecessary.

Edited by SgtSixpack

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I think my bad disk issue is the BIOS choking on recognizing disks.  Can't say I know the specifics, but I think it has nothing to do with the boot sector, since Windows does start to load then hangs...I'm thinking because somehow the BIOS' can't tell the OS what disks are there.  These are ca. 2004 BIOS's.  I had a 2008 machine for a while and it never had this weird issue.

p.s.  I always install an OS with only that one HDD connected.

Edited by coyote

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