BOE

Physically small - LARGE TB capacity FAST NAS?

Recommended Posts

Hello,

I'd like something reasonably small like a QNAP TVS-471. I was thinking of putting 4 FAST spindle drives like the Seagate 5TB enterprise models in a RAID 5 config, 10gbit and SSD cache. I need to back up about 12TB of data. When I copy from one server to the next I get excellent speed but both have LSI raid controllers with 1GB of cache. I have no idea how good the raid controllers in the QNAPs are but that seems to be at least as important of the drives. I average about 70% utilization when copying between servers each with a 10gbit connection. I may not achieve that speed with the QNAP so I'm curious if anyone has tried it or something else that is going to copy super fast - LARGE amounts of data. The bulk of the data are virtual machines - average of 500GB each.

I can't justify backing up to SSDs as that would be TOO expensive so I need a reasonable solution with great speed but small enough to be easily portable.

Edited by BOE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the intention is moving large files around, SSD cache of any sort won't help you out for that. What systems are the host and target? You mention RAID cards on either side, but not the server OS you are dealing with. Further are you using backup software or some other means to move the data around?

The QNAP (and others in that class) all leverage software RAID. Those RAID controllers, even if old are much, much faster for most workloads than software RAID.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am backing up a 2012 R2 server with several VHDx files - each about 600GB. Total storage about 12TB but growing. I'd like to make a full backup every evening. I can do this between two servers that have RAID 50 spindle drives with LSI 1GB cache controllers, HOWEVER I'd like a reasonably small NAS box that is easy to take offsite. I can either use Windows native backup or Freefilesync although I prefer to using Windows Native Backup.

So if anyone knows of a NAS box that has a real raid controller in it that is reasonably small, I'd be grateful. Or a small box with enough physical space for a small motherboard, a 10gbic nic and an LSI controller and 4 or 6 3.5" hard drives and I'll build my own.

Edited by BOE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, if you don't mind itx, I'd suggest lian-li pc-q08. It's small, quadratisch, praktisch, holds up to 6 3.5' (it may vibrate a bit fully loaded, but it fares better than it's predecessor, look up the review at silentpcreview).

These days you can easily get some integrated SCU board + ***5 xeon w\ gpu. And recently supermicro began soldering 10gbe controllers to their boards as well, though I haven't checked yet if they do this for the mini-itx platform. Either way you'd able to use that lone slot to host the required remaining adapter.

I looked it up and probably X10SDV-TLN4F would be just fine (onboard 10gbe + pcie 3.0 16x).

Sorry, my fault. It's actually pc-q18 that remedied vibrations from the fully populated drive cage. It also supports 6 3.5 inchers.

Or check pc-q25. They dropped 5.25 and there is now backplane for 5 drives and up to 7 3.5' supported. Cool!

Edited by forvea
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks - the only thing I can't figure out (I've never used a mini-itx motherboard before) is the PCIe slot on the board. I appears to be in the middle bottom of the board. Are you supposed to remove the edge bracket of the card you use or is the board just so small that it only appears to be too far from the edge to install standard video or Raid controller card? That motherboard is great because it has the 10g network but that included processor is insanely expensive. Do they have any micro-itx that don't have included processors but have the 10g?

I'm debating now if I should stick with mid tower. I think I'd like hot swappable drives like the Silverstone DS380B has. However I could save a lot of money if I just went with a mid tower case although I'm not sure who makes a good one with swappable bays.

Edited by BOE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is your budget on this? I could float some ideas around for something more server-centric.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lower cost solution could be asrock C2550D4I (12x sata2/3), but then you'll need a nic, so it's still ~ $600. Still marginally less than $900 supermicro.

Another options: asrock e3c224d4i-14s (4x sata3, lsi 2308) or mt-c224 + one of the cheaper pentiums / celerons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks here are two systems as I might configure them if I went mini tower

1 Silverstone DS380B - $144

1 Corsair -CX430 - $50

1 X10SDV- $1110

1 2x8GB Memory - $110

1 SSD 850 250gb - $100

5 4TB Seagate Ent - $220X5=$1100 (raid 5) about 15TB usable

1 LSI 9271 (used) with battery & cables - $500

about $3500 with shipping and tax

On another I might go the same system but with 7 x 6TB ent drives- $2450 about 35TB usable

1 drive removed so controller slides into cage area.

about $5200 with shipping and tax.

If I find a relatively short midtower case that focuses on removable 3.5" drives, I'll post if I find something I like. The startech 8 bay is close but expensive. Thanks for helping me with this project.

Edited by BOE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IIRC Lian-Li probably has some that work, maybe Fractal Design, Coolermaster, and Corsair-- and crap I'm pretty sure there's at least one company I'm forgetting...

(I see you already mentioned Silverstone!)

One hitch is all 4 of the companies I mentioned are mostly consumer-focused, so if you need hotswap they're probably not going to work for you.

I know it's minor savings at best but if you're doing hardware RAID you can probably get by with less memory and a much smaller SSD, depending on your OS of choice. A more major savings is if you don't need the ultra low power Broadwell cores in the very pricey Xeon D 1540-- again you'll have hardware offload in the LSI 9271 controller so you can probably get by with an ASRock E3C226D2I ($200) and the most affordable quad-core Xeon E3 V3 you can get your hands on (obviously you can aim slightly higher in the lineup if bang for your buck is more of a concern), but that should easily let you knock $600 off the price right there.

Since your main goal is file copying I would imagine you already have plenty of CPU in any of the Xeon-based setups discussed so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only other chassis with hot swap design like that silverstone that I can remember off the bat is u-nas NSC-800. This one has slightly better cooling thanks to the 2 120mm at the back, but other than that they are built in a radically different fashion, so it's more of a question what one prefers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks - the only thing I can't figure out (I've never used a mini-itx motherboard before) is the PCIe slot on the board. I appears to be in the middle bottom of the board. Are you supposed to remove the edge bracket of the card you use or is the board just so small that it only appears to be too far from the edge to install standard video or Raid controller card?

It just appears that way. The slot is in a standard location, the same as the top slot on an ATX board.

That motherboard is great because it has the 10g network but that included processor is insanely expensive.

I wouldn't call $500 for an 8-core Xeon to be insanely expensive (especially 8 cores in 45w). We have machines with four 8-core, 105w Xeons that cost $1500 per processor.

Do they have any micro-itx that don't have included processors but have the 10g?

No, you won't find an equivalent board with included 10G because the 10G is part of the processor. There are probably other MiniITX boards with standalone 10G, but they will be far less power efficient on the whole and won't be any cheaper, the cheapest 8-core socket Xeon Intel have is over $700 and is one generation older, not including the motherboard or 10G NICs

A lower cost solution could be asrock C2550D4I (12x sata2/3), but then you'll need a nic, so it's still ~ $600. Still marginally less than $900 supermicro.

Another options: asrock e3c224d4i-14s (4x sata3, lsi 2308) or mt-c224 + one of the cheaper pentiums / celerons.

Marginally less than the Supermicro and an order of magnitude slower...

Remember software RAID relies on CPU speed, an 8 core Xeon-D will have no problem maxing out 10Gbps in software RAID. A 4-core Atom will have a hard time with 1Gbps let alone 10. Oh and the Xeon-D has E5-class RAS features too:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9185/intel-xeon-d-review-performance-per-watt-server-soc-champion/2

Incidentally, that article just reminded me of the Superserver 5028D-TN4T - which has 4 hot-swap HDD bays and a power supply in a tiny chassis:

http://www.supermicro.co.uk/products/system/midtower/5028/SYS-5028D-TN4T.cfm

Just add RAM (and drives).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am backing up a 2012 R2 server with several VHDx files - each about 600GB. Total storage about 12TB but growing. I'd like to make a full backup every evening. I can do this between two servers that have RAID 50 spindle drives with LSI 1GB cache controllers, HOWEVER I'd like a reasonably small NAS box that is easy to take offsite. I can either use Windows native backup or Freefilesync although I prefer to using Windows Native Backup.

So if anyone knows of a NAS box that has a real raid controller in it that is reasonably small, I'd be grateful. Or a small box with enough physical space for a small motherboard, a 10gbic nic and an LSI controller and 4 or 6 3.5" hard drives and I'll build my own.

how about a small DAS - stand-alone hardware raid eSATA or USB3.0 fully hot plug, We have one, it does about 230MB/s. Our current set up is 16TB (5x 4TB) Raid5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now