Mocorongo

Do you agree Maxtor is responsible for Seagate failures?

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Ever since Maxtor was purchased from Seagate in 2005-2006 we heard many reports from dead drives, from several different models, like the 500 GB/1 TB/1.5 TB making almost impossible to trust this company again... We are not talking about a bunch of people/drives, but thousands of them...

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3...7200-11-failing

This is not a conspiracy theory, I am merely stating facts that are common knowledge. We all know Maxtor was famous for releasing faulty drives. I heard a lot of people complaining their drives were awful and unreliable. And even if they survive, their lifespan was shorter than all other drives, dying in 3 or 4 years for example, while you can use Samsung, WD/Seagate for 5, 6 years.

Well, I am not an expert in this subject, but I am sure that if Seagate purchased Maxtor, then it's safe to assume they will interfer in the production of these drives. If they were doing a lousy job before...

What do you think?

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Considering that once Seagate absorbed Maxtor, they largely laid off all the Maxtor employees (those who didn't see the writing on the wall and leave voluntarily), I don't think there's much water in this theory.

Plus, I don't think Seagate took over much of Maxtor's manufacturing capability. I know they didn't retain the relationship with MKE (holdover from the Quantum merger).

Frankly, no company is immune from bad luck/decisions. It doesn't take outside influence. ;)

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Considering that once Seagate absorbed Maxtor, they largely laid off all the Maxtor employees (those who didn't see the writing on the wall and leave voluntarily), I don't think there's much water in this theory.

Plus, I don't think Seagate took over much of Maxtor's manufacturing capability. I know they didn't retain the relationship with MKE (holdover from the Quantum merger).

Frankly, no company is immune from bad luck/decisions. It doesn't take outside influence. ;)

So what did Seagate take over from Maxtor? Only the brand?

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So what did Seagate take over from Maxtor? Only the brand?

I don't know the details, just that they likely took over the brand, any contracts with customers/suppliers that Maxtor may have had, and certain product lines. I *think* those product lines have since gone EOL, though.

I suspect the main reason Seagate bought out Maxtor was to eliminate a competitor and gain market share.

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So what did Seagate take over from Maxtor? Only the brand?

I don't know the details, just that they likely took over the brand, any contracts with customers/suppliers that Maxtor may have had, and certain product lines. I *think* those product lines have since gone EOL, though.

I suspect the main reason Seagate bought out Maxtor was to eliminate a competitor and gain market share.

Also patents and technologies.

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Ever since Maxtor was purchased from Seagate in 2005-2006 we heard many reports from dead drives, from several different models

If you have a dirty, sewage infested feculent river flow into a pristine lake, you get a dirty lake and a dirty river.

Maxtor IS poison, and it did bring Seagate way down. I hope they got rid of everyone responsible for Maxtor sucking.

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We all know Maxtor was famous for releasing faulty drives. I heard a lot of people complaining their drives were awful and unreliable. And even if they survive, their lifespan was shorter than all other drives, dying in 3 or 4 years for example, while you can use Samsung, WD/Seagate for 5, 6 years.

You are grasping at straws for an explanation, and got the wrong one. I always bought Maxtor, and have had over a dozen of them. I never had a Maxtor failure and they always lasted the life of the PC which was around 5 years, until they got to the 100 GB/platter level. Then, the two drives I lost were early in the production run, when failure rates are always high. That was not long before they were taken over by Seagate as I recall. But you might as well blame it on Seagate if you want to. But I still have the replacement Maxtors (250 GB and 300 GB) going strong, around 5 years later, not to mention the six-year old 80 GB Maxtor I just removed from active service to put in a standby PC.

For comparison, when I bought Seagate, WD and Quantum (one of each), I got failures in the first year. The difference was significant, though I think reliability has improved greatly in recent years for all of them, and I have no problems now. But I also now use well-cooled cases, uninterruptable power supplies and good (series) surge protectors.

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I have a 7 year old 120GB Maxtor drive that still to this day serves me. I think what happened was Maxtor started having poor quality near the end. I used to buy nothing BUT Maxtor, forget Seagate, WD, the lot of em. Maxtor was the only brand I ever bought. Then guess what? Seagate bought em. Then I had no choice but to go find another company as I won't use Seagate products (very bad experiences with them) so I adopted WD and never looked back. The Maxtor I have was the last one I ever bought and it was the last Maxtor that was a Maxtor, not a Maxtor-Seagate. Now, I do think Seagate builds a good drive, but with that firmware isseue, Ill stay away from em. I just had my Seagate 250GB just outta no where quit working and it reminded me why I don't use Seagate products. That drive came with my PC when I bought it, unfortunately. I woulda chose a WD which is what I have in there now. So anyway moral of the story is if anything....Seagate made Maxtor worse..not the other way around.

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All HD vendors. ALL have had occasional drive lines with problems. This whole "I'll never trust Seagate again" stuff is really funny.

There is not a single vendor that hasn't had one of their drive lines have a problem in the last 5 or 6 years. Just because Seagate had some issues with one sub-type of their 7200.11's (that is entirely fixed now) doesn't mean anything about their future drives.

If I stopped purchasing from every manufacturer that I've had to return a drive that was less than 1 year old to I would only be able to buy SSD's. I've had WD 40GB drives die on me (and then the replacement die, and then ITS replacement die). I've returned a fujitsu, a samsung, and multiple hitachis. Somehow, none of my IBM Deskstars died, but they're not making any more drives. And although no Maxtor I've had has died in its first year, one of them died right when the 3 year warranty went up, like an alarm clock.

My only rule these days is to buy 5 year warranty drives, with the exception being if its for archival mass storage and the data is protected somehow (backed up or RAID).

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The shame is that Maxtor really did go down hill. I still have a machine with a pair of 20 year old Maxtor drives, which are running more cylinders than spec and higher bit density than spec (RLL encoding). In the 80's, Maxtor were fantastic. You only have to look at the reliability survey on this site to see that the DiamondMax D740X, which happens to be the boot drive on my desktop machine, was about the last really reliable Maxtor drive. It was released in 2001.

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The shame is that Maxtor really did go down hill. I still have a machine with a pair of 20 year old Maxtor drives, which are running more cylinders than spec and higher bit density than spec (RLL encoding). In the 80's, Maxtor were fantastic. You only have to look at the reliability survey on this site to see that the DiamondMax D740X, which happens to be the boot drive on my desktop machine, was about the last really reliable Maxtor drive. It was released in 2001.

And the D740X was identical to Quantum's last dekstop drive, the Fireball AS, wasn't it?

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All HD vendors. ALL have had occasional drive lines with problems. This whole "I'll never trust Seagate again" stuff is really funny.

There is not a single vendor that hasn't had one of their drive lines have a problem in the last 5 or 6 years. Just because Seagate had some issues with one sub-type of their 7200.11's (that is entirely fixed now) doesn't mean anything about their future drives.

If I stopped purchasing from every manufacturer that I've had to return a drive that was less than 1 year old to I would only be able to buy SSD's. I've had WD 40GB drives die on me (and then the replacement die, and then ITS replacement die). I've returned a fujitsu, a samsung, and multiple hitachis. Somehow, none of my IBM Deskstars died, but they're not making any more drives. And although no Maxtor I've had has died in its first year, one of them died right when the 3 year warranty went up, like an alarm clock.

My only rule these days is to buy 5 year warranty drives, with the exception being if its for archival mass storage and the data is protected somehow (backed up or RAID).

Well I still say Seagate was the problem. I have a seagate drive that is working (for the moment) but I still won't buy them if I have a choice. In the past I had like 5 or 6 drives fail on me right in a row. I found that the newer drives are still noisy, clunky and lack reliability over WD. Its just a matter of preference, some love and swear by Seagate, for me its WD hands down. The WD that I have (WD6400AAKS) will just smoke my Seagate (ST3250820AS) and the other drive that I had before sending it back defective after a week (ST3500410AS 7200.12 series). So yeah I won't buy another Seagate as I don't trust them. If it wasn't for me having my backups in several locations I would have lost all of my data that cannot be replaced. So for me WD is the brand Ill buy above all else. Seagates on the bottom of the list. Thats my personal preference, others may have others.

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All HD vendors. ALL have had occasional drive lines with problems. This whole "I'll never trust Seagate again" stuff is really funny.
Yep. Indeed.

It's up to the consumer on what to buy, so I don't hold it against anyone.

As far as Seagate drives and desktop performance, hell, they've lagged behind the competition since the 'Cuda ATA IV or so, so no one should be surprised at that...

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WD is the best I think :)

Seagates are okay for some people, I personally don't like em. And I agree that WD is the better brand. Like I said it all comes down to preference. I have had a bad experience with Seagate hence the reason I won't buy em. However, every brand has at one point in time sold drives that were not the best. I know the original WD Caviars had issues and I stopped buying them for a few years. This was back when a 1.6GB drive was considered a large drive lol. I also had a 3.2GB drive fail that I bought right after that. As far as I can tell Seagate hasn't changed a lot. Their drives are still loud and clunky, kinda sound like cheap metal rattling around in there. I know the newer Seagates are quieter, but its still a Seagate. I went with Maxtor for many years until they started to go to crap and I never had one fail on me until Seagate bought them. I know their quality started to decline before then, but by that time I was already buying WD. I had problems with WD and Seagate's RMA's un the past, sending me drives that would fail one after the other. This was several years ago, and I know that WD at least has gotten better.

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I have 2 five year old 160GB Seagates that have been running almost 24 hours a day. They each have about 4 years of power on hours on them.

I have had dozens of hard drives, and the only one to fail on me was an 80GB Samsung. Do I hate Samsung? No.

Like mentioned before, every drive makers puts out junk once in a while. Seagate will bounce back.

That being said, WD seems to be the most stable manuf. reliability wise across their different models.

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I have 2 five year old 160GB Seagates that have been running almost 24 hours a day. They each have about 4 years of power on hours on them.

I have had dozens of hard drives, and the only one to fail on me was an 80GB Samsung. Do I hate Samsung? No.

Like mentioned before, every drive makers puts out junk once in a while. Seagate will bounce back.

That being said, WD seems to be the most stable manuf. reliability wise across their different models.

Well as I stated before its a matter of preference. Im sure not all seagates are junky drives, but there have been several out there that have had catastrophic failures so as a general rule I try to stay away from them. I do not believe that ALL Seagate drives are just unreliable door stops, but they don't have the best track record. Every company does put out junky drives every now and then. Don't get me wrong, I have a Seagate 250GB drive, and it does work...most of the time. It has a issue with the power plug on the drive not wanting to keep the drive powered on, hence the reason I replaced it with a WD :D That drive is very loud and very clunky, not to say all of them are. The WD is pretty damn close to silent. WD is one of the better brands out there, and there are a few others, but until Seagate gets there act together, WD is going to be the one with the business. As far as I can tell since about the 120GB drive in my experience, WDs have been very reliable drives. I can't say anything about the drives before that with the exception of the old Caviar 1.6GB drives lol because that was the last WD I had before the 120. But since then I have had 2 others and can't complain. I also do hope Seagate comes back around because I would like to give them another chance if their drives come back to the reliability side. But for now, Ill stick with the proven WD.

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This is not accurate information about Seagate, jsawyer.

Seagate invented FDB (Fluid Dynamic Bearing) motors. I used solely Barracudas for years for my OS drive. They even had the bottom circuit board covered with their SoftSonic foam or something. These drives were inaudible. It took years for other hd manufacturers to move to FDBs. I know for fact that WDs used those times sounded at least 10 times louder. I still have an 80GB Barracuda IV and 80GB Caviar and I need to plug them in on open system sometimes. WD sounds like a rocket launchpad. I still to this day thank Seagate for FDBs.

Seagates were enthusiast's choice for quiter drives undisputably for years. I have WDs manufactured in 2005 and they are a multiple times louder than my 80GB Seagate I bought in 2001 or 2002.

But recently I tried few 1TB WD Green Crap and they were very quite. Really quiet!

I guess WD needed to make a 5400 RPM drive to match what Seagate was doing with a 7200 RPM drive in 2002! This drive was a pain to work with with an average of 50 MB/s transfer rates! 5 hours for a secure erase!

So I dont know what you are refering too, but WDs have never been quiet drives. I have a 200GB Caviar that I need to load data sometimes. I put on top of it two trousers and two cardboard boxes while it works 1.5 hours. It is unbearable. I can't believe people are so hearing-impaired that they were able to use these on their computers. But I guess, among 10 fans, a CPU leafblower and all, the sound of a WD would feel like a sweet whisper! On comparison, 200GB Samsungs I had from 2003-2004 are barely audible.

Equation might have changed after 2006 I believe. My 750GB/1TB Seages are nowhere as quiet as my 500GB/1TB Samsungs. So I also don't understand what you are refering to with newer Seagates being quieter. Seagate lost that realm few years back but definitely not to WD. SSDs in sight, it doesnt matter any more any way.

WD is the best I think :)
As far as I can tell Seagate hasn't changed a lot. Their drives are still loud and clunky, kinda sound like cheap metal rattling around in there. I know the newer Seagates are quieter, but its still a Seagate.

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I have used and dealt with drives from almost all drive makers -- including notorious Deathstars, RAID-Disappearing Caviars, burning Fujitsu MPG3s and Seagate 1TBs...

None of them died on me. Hell, my current 750GB Seagate has supposedly faulty firmware... I am still using it 24/7 more than 1.5 years already... Who cares? Is there smoke coming from my PC room??? Oh, my heart skipped a beat that my Seagate will disappear! NOT!

If it passes my initial stress-testing, then it is good for me. Many drives (including those faulty productions I mentioned above) failed during stress-testing though. Why leave it to the manufacturer when you can take the matters to your own hands?

As for Maxtor, I always liked Quantums... But somehow I never liked Maxtor... Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that their drives would idle at 55C and hit 65C under load (in comparison, WD from same era 38C-45C). Those were the only drives that I had to wait 10 mins before removing them from my system -- they were so hot to the touch. But I always liked Maxtor's extra space (120GB drive formatted: 111GB Seagate, 114GB Maxtor).

I don't think Seagate's failures has anything to do with Maxtor's acquisition. It just happens to all manufacturers somehow someday. Some of them handle it gracefully, some dont. Seagate just did not.

Ever since Maxtor was purchased from Seagate in 2005-2006 we heard many reports from dead drives, from several different models, like the 500 GB/1 TB/1.5 TB making almost impossible to trust this company again... We are not talking about a bunch of people/drives, but thousands of them...

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I have used and dealt with drives from almost all drive makers -- including notorious Deathstars, RAID-Disappearing Caviars, burning Fujitsu MPG3s and Seagate 1TBs...

None of them died on me. Hell, my current 750GB Seagate has supposedly faulty firmware... I am still using it 24/7 more than 1.5 years already... Who cares? Is there smoke coming from my PC room??? Oh, my heart skipped a beat that my Seagate will disappear! NOT!

If it passes my initial stress-testing, then it is good for me. Many drives (including those faulty productions I mentioned above) failed during stress-testing though. Why leave it to the manufacturer when you can take the matters to your own hands?

As for Maxtor, I always liked Quantums... But somehow I never liked Maxtor... Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that their drives would idle at 55C and hit 65C under load (in comparison, WD from same era 38C-45C). Those were the only drives that I had to wait 10 mins before removing them from my system -- they were so hot to the touch. But I always liked Maxtor's extra space (120GB drive formatted: 111GB Seagate, 114GB Maxtor).

I don't think Seagate's failures has anything to do with Maxtor's acquisition. It just happens to all manufacturers somehow someday. Some of them handle it gracefully, some dont. Seagate just did not.

Ever since Maxtor was purchased from Seagate in 2005-2006 we heard many reports from dead drives, from several different models, like the 500 GB/1 TB/1.5 TB making almost impossible to trust this company again... We are not talking about a bunch of people/drives, but thousands of them...

As I had said quite a few times already, its a matter of preference. I had the Seagates when they only had the 3.2GB drives and they were nasty loud. I also have a 250GB cuda and it can be heard OVER my case fans, so you are telling me they are quiet drives?!? Maybe other models, but the one I have is a 7200.10 and it sounds like there is a chainsaw going on in my case. WDs used to be very loud, no doubt, but you are right about when they went to 7200RPM they got quieter because WD started using a different technology. I do believe that Seagate lost its flag to WD. Why do you think they are so popular? Why do you think companies get WD drives? I don't think Seagates are ALL bad drives, I personally don't trust them for anything due to having 4 drives fail on me one after the other. Since then, and I have not trusted them. Albeit, it was several years ago and maybe Seagate has changed, but I simply won't take the chance. I trust WD and sure I had drives fail on me, and I used Maxtor for years, then Seagate bought em. I had to give WD a chance, and I havn't been disappointed. I have a 640GB WD and its near silent without my fans on, and its REALLY fast. So, yeah I would get a seagate is my store was out of WDs, but I wouldnt buy it purposely. ID Take a WD. I respect your opinion, and in my view, my view on Seagates is pretty accurate. Try getting my Seagate to work for more than an hour and you will see what I mean. It will shut its self off randomly, and all I gotta say is that's a Seagate for ya. I know not all of em are like that, but if it was a WD, I doubt I would have that problem.

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Try getting my Seagate to work for more than an hour and you will see what I mean. It will shut its self off randomly, and all I gotta say is that's a Seagate for ya. I know not all of em are like that, but if it was a WD, I doubt I would have that problem.

No, that is not what Seagates are for all but the most ignorant.

But, I have news for you: That is a faulty drive that should not ever had data commited on it to start with -- probably just like the 4 that died on you.

I have another news for you... No matter what brand you will be getting, you will always have drives die on you coz you are apparently not testing them prior to committing your data on them. You are just getting faulty drives and they are failing on you eventually.

As for Seagate, I think SPCR comment speaks for itself... Here it is for your reference:

The Legendary Barracuda IV

Designed specifically with low noise as a primary goal, the 7200 RPM Seagate Barracuda ATA IV hard drive was introduced in 2001 to acclaim by noise-conscious PC users everywhere. Idle noise for the single platter 20 and 40 GB models was cited at 2.0 bels (sound power) and 2.4 bels for seek, with AAM engaged. It was by far the quietest 3.5" hard drive of its day, and one of the first to sport FDB. Several samples still at work in various systems at SPCR sound at least as quiet as (if not quieter than) the quietest 3.5" drives we've reviewed recently. It remains active in our collection of reference quiet hard drives.

And I must remind you that I was running watercooling setups and 0db systems long before SPCR existed -- long before even people noticed there are fans inside a PC in fact!

Seagate did not lose anything to WD as far as quietness is concerned. Samsungs have always been the quietest and they still are. But as I mentioned, with switch to SSDs, problem solved from the root -- noise level of drives is no longer an area of interest for me. Those looking for silence will be able to entirely eliminate mechanical drives in their system in the next year or so.

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Try getting my Seagate to work for more than an hour and you will see what I mean. It will shut its self off randomly, and all I gotta say is that's a Seagate for ya. I know not all of em are like that, but if it was a WD, I doubt I would have that problem.

No, that is not what Seagates are for all but the most ignorant.

But, I have news for you: That is a faulty drive that should not ever had data commited on it to start with -- probably just like the 4 that died on you.

I have another news for you... No matter what brand you will be getting, you will always have drives die on you coz you are apparently not testing them prior to committing your data on them. You are just getting faulty drives and they are failing on you eventually.

As for Seagate, I think SPCR comment speaks for itself... Here it is for your reference:

The Legendary Barracuda IV

Designed specifically with low noise as a primary goal, the 7200 RPM Seagate Barracuda ATA IV hard drive was introduced in 2001 to acclaim by noise-conscious PC users everywhere. Idle noise for the single platter 20 and 40 GB models was cited at 2.0 bels (sound power) and 2.4 bels for seek, with AAM engaged. It was by far the quietest 3.5" hard drive of its day, and one of the first to sport FDB. Several samples still at work in various systems at SPCR sound at least as quiet as (if not quieter than) the quietest 3.5" drives we've reviewed recently. It remains active in our collection of reference quiet hard drives.

And I must remind you that I was running watercooling setups and 0db systems long before SPCR existed -- long before even people noticed there are fans inside a PC in fact!

Seagate did not lose anything to WD as far as quietness is concerned. Samsungs have always been the quietest and they still are. But as I mentioned, with switch to SSDs, problem solved from the root -- noise level of drives is no longer an area of interest for me. Those looking for silence will be able to entirely eliminate mechanical drives in their system in the next year or so.

Let me give you a little insight here, I do a very intensive testing on EVERY new drive I get. I have several utilities for testing them and the Seagate that I currently have is a older drive so I can give it some credit. All you have to do is just lookup seagate drive reviews vs wd drive reviews and that should be the only information you need. I will also state what I have stated in my responses at least 10 times is IT IS A MATTER OF PERSONAL PREFERENCE!!!!! If you seem to know so much about Seagates, then answer me this: why would the computer shop that I buy my drives from stop selling Seagate drives and recall all of the drives they sold in the last 6 months because they "could become defective due to firmware"? Give me a real good reason and I will agree with you. I do agree with you that Samsung drives are quiet as I have heard they are. However I do not have any experience with Samsung, so I cannot say anything whatsoever about them. I know WDs USED to be very loud. Hell I had a WD 120 that sounded like a freight train going down the tracks when ever it made access. But I am not talking about the old and obsolete WD drives or Seagate drives, I am talking about all the 7200 series drives. I will say again incase you cannot read very well, and I will even put it in caps again so you can see it ITS A MATTER OF PREFERENCE! All hard drive companies have crappy drives, all have good drives, I just havn't seen a good Seagate. My Seagate worked well for a while, then it started not working off and on, so therefore I removed it from the system. The current WD drives I have had NO I repeat NO problems with. I just won't commit my data to a Seagate in any permanant manner. If you do, and you have a reliable Seagate drive, good for you. However I prefer WD drives. See this is what you call PERSONAL PREFERENCE!!! I think you get the point. All computer parts including hard drives are man-made so they will have problems at one point or another. I just don't like the way a Seagate sounds. I may try out a Samsung eventually as I have hard good things about em. But Seagate will not be on "MY" preferred brand list. And I leave you with what I have said a million times, it depends on your preference. I still stand by my personal opinion on saying that I don't think Seagate drives are as good as they used to be. I will also revert back to the original post as I do not believe that Maxtor had anything to do with Seagates failures as they had issues before then from what I heard. I do not know how they were when they aquired Maxtor as I wasn't using Seagates then. Seagate may be ok now, but I don't care to find out. As for calling me ignorant, you really have no idea who you are talking about as I have built many, many, many computers and had many drives work fine. You just are a Seagate buddy. I'm sorry if you are a WD hater. When Seagate goes belly up you will have to find another brand like I did when Seagate went to crap.

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I know WDs USED to be very loud. Hell I had a WD 120 that sounded like a freight train going down the tracks when ever it made access. But I am not talking about the old and obsolete WD drives or Seagate drives, I am talking about all the 7200 series drives.

Dude, what exactly are you talking about? 7200 rpms drives are not new... They have been around 10+ years.

I am sorry, I am not going to be able to entertain this circus any more.

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You only have to look at the reliability survey on this site to see that the DiamondMax D740X, which happens to be the boot drive on my desktop machine, was about the last really reliable Maxtor drive. It was released in 2001.

And the D740X was identical to Quantum's last dekstop drive, the Fireball AS, wasn't it?

Not identical. The D740X was based on the AS, but much faster and (at least for the FDB motor version) much quieter.

Especially after 8 years. I have a Fireball AS in another machine. Still working perfectly, but you can hear the hum across the room when it's on.

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