Jackie78

Samsung HDD and "Check M.C. ecc error" in HUTIL 2.10

Recommended Posts

The incompetence of Samsung in dealing with this issue is enough to put me off buying any current model/revision F1s. If they aren't smart enough to catch their newest drives erroring with their own diagnostic tool, and they aren't smart enough to respond quickly and comprehensively to their customers who report the error, then they also might not be smart enough to produce a properly reliable drive; or find fatal problems in the design; or .... etc.

We could be looking at the next Deathstar here and Samsung wouldn't even have to cover it up -- they might just be totally ignorant of it.

AFAIK Samsung didn't have an HDD diagnostic tool for a long time at all, so it stands to reason when they finally made one that it was still not a priority and/or was outsourced. Since they got along just fine with their previous drives without the diagnostic tool, it stands to reason that testing their drives with it was never part of the quality control process - but nor does this mean that their quality control is bad because afaik Samsung has had a decent track record thus far.

I do agree with you however that for a gigantic multinational company they've definitely let the ball drop and then some, but having said that I don't regret buying their drives, at least not yet.

I bought five of these drives (5x 1Tb) here in the UK in the middle of January, which all had serial numbers within a range of fifteen-twenty numbers of each other.

All five showed an ECC error on the M.C. test and four also on the Surface Scan test. I did a low level format on one of the drives which had both errors but it did not help, so couldn't be bothered to run the test for the other four.

I RMA'd all five and got 5 new drives as replacement with totally different serial numbers, although still within a close range from each other (same batch I guess).

They all failed the M.C. test at which point in the sequecne I stopped the test before the Surface Scan since I knew I was not going to keep them anyway (and honestly because I was so p_i_s_s_e_d o_f_f by Samsung and the whole thing that I was out of patience).

I have now been granted a refund from the retailer so all well there (despite the very time-consuming hassle of taking delviery of, installing, testing, emailing, repacking, resending five drives... twice...).

I think it is worth mentioning also that this was not only a theoretical problem for me; the drives simply did not work with my Areca ARC-1231ML PCI-E raid controller card, not even connected one by one, and the card set to work in a simple JBOD configuaration. I have no such problems with two Barracuda 7200.10 750Gb drives that I also own. For this reason, I believe these F1 HDDs suffer other more serious problems than just not being compatible with HUTIL v2.10.

I hope Samsung will sort this out and I am holding off buying other drives, at least till another manufacturer introduces 3x333Gb platter solutions.

I may as well copy-paste what I said to this on spcr since that's what you're doing :P

"Well, not all RAID cards work with all HDDs well by a LONG shot, so it's very possible they were simply incompatible. For example, even WD's Raid Editions had trouble on Adaptec cards in the past - at least with the Raid Editions they didn't let it slide and released a firmware fix.

So why am I defending the F1s when my four 750s showed the M.C. error as well? Well, they are working fine in my PERC5i (LSI 8408E) in RAID5, so that's definitive proof that we have no proof of whether they have as you said "more serious problems" ;)

As for other 3x333 drives, the current WDs coming out with 320GB platters should fit your needs quite well :D "

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My Samsung F1 Experience, to be continued as I'm going to return the current drive given the more severe errors on it!

I ask you to look at the Size and Rom Rev and date on the top of the drive as they seem to differ..

HD103UJ (1TB) on ICH9R ide mode

Drive #1 12/2007 Rom Rev 1AA01106, Size 953869MB LBA 1953525168

Drive #2 12/2007 Rom Rev 1AA01107, Size 953868MB LBA 1953523055 (Options/Drive info NATIVE SIZE: Size 953869MB LBA 1953525168)

#1,2 Check M.C. Error : ECC error

#1 ~30 Ecc errors in Full Read surface scan only, no other errors.

#2 First test run, different results from later runs:

Check M.C.

Error : Undefined error

Simple Surface Scan

Error : Undefined error

#2 Later tests, no more Undefined's, now it's the Ecc error for above.

#2 Full Read surface scan:

Sector errors at around 350 MB into the drive.

Sector ID not found..

#2 seeks are slighty more noisy than #1. #1 vibrated more.

Ecc error is less annoying than Sector error in one way atleast: When the drive hits the Sector error sector it really slows down during the scan so it takes many seconds to get to next sector. Given Maxtors have had SMART "hardware Ecc errors" as long as I remember maybe they are not so serious but I would def. return any drives with Sector error or the drive size less than Native size (indicates there's ton of bad sectors already if you ask me).

Edited by androidi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So it seems the 1TB drives are quite prone to the surface scan errors. Those are probably legitimate errors, unlike the MC Error, although my second point below might be relevant. The 750s have different platters and it seems to me are less likely to be bad from the shelf.

Second, the spcr thread that is linked to states that Samsung told the guy not to even *run* HUTIL on F1 drives - so it's possible the program screws the drives over even more.

Of course, if your drives make weird noises or behave suspiciously they are probably bad, we don't need HUTIL to tell us that.

I'd RMA both in your shoes androidi :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a HD103UJ with a older firmware than Androidi's; 1AA01104. While it shows the same kinds of errors in Hutil (check M.C. and surface scan) NO other surface scan utility has detected any flaws, nor has any SMART utility I've used (SMART Monitor, ActiveSMART) logged any "hard" errors or sector reallocation events.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have a HD103UJ with a older firmware than Androidi's; 1AA01104. While it shows the same kinds of errors in Hutil (check M.C. and surface scan) NO other surface scan utility has detected any flaws, nor has any SMART utility I've used (SMART Monitor, ActiveSMART) logged any "hard" errors or sector reallocation events.

Yikes. That's a bit of a lose-lose, either the drives are bad anyway in his case, or by running the program he has actually caused damage to the drives if it's really reallocating sectors etc where there are no errors. Best bet is to RMA now regardless, and don't run HUTIL 2.1 on the replacement drives until the next version is out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
so....... is this a safe drive to buy? or is the jury still out?

Jury is still out to an extent. Once they finally release the new version:

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd...port_HUTIL.html

We can see just to what extent it was misdiagnosing the drives. The 750s are pretty safe for sure though since they seem to only get the MC Error, whilst the 1TBs fail the HUTIL surface scan a bit more often, but the question is still whether it's finding legitimate errors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my experience with these drives. I've got four of the Samsung 1TB drives. All have an MC error, but the error I see is different than what most people report. Instead of an ecc error I get "media error detected" on all four drives when I run hutil 2.10. Three of my four drives show an ecc error during the simple surface scan. I did the full surface scan on all four drives. The three that had the ecc error are riddled with errors (I didn't write them down but I think they were ecc errors, invalid sector errors, and sector not found errors). The one drive that did not have an ecc error during the simple surface scan completed the full surface scan without any errors. I plan to send 3 of my 4 drives back for RMA replacement. I hope my fourth drive is fine but this whole experience leaves me less than confident. I certainly won't be setting up my raid 5 array for a while and who knows how many rma exchanges I"ll have to go through until I get four drives that don't report errors during the full surface scan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I returned two of these drives. I agree 100%.

The incompetence of Samsung in dealing with this issue is enough to put me off buying any current model/revision F1s. If they aren't smart enough to catch their newest drives erroring with their own diagnostic tool, and they aren't smart enough to respond quickly and comprehensively to their customers who report the error, then they also might not be smart enough to produce a properly reliable drive; or find fatal problems in the design; or .... etc.

We could be looking at the next Deathstar here and Samsung wouldn't even have to cover it up -- they might just be totally ignorant of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
any updates on this situation?

ES-Tool 2.11

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd...es/ES_Tool.html

Apparently, at least some of the latest batch of F1s (since about Jan. 08, firmware rev. 1AA01108) no longer show "Check M.C error" in HUTIL 2.10 (see the screenshot in the second post by Eddie Eagle):

Translated:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...en&ie=UTF-8

Original:

http://www.forumdeluxx.de/forum/showthread...813&page=31

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
datestardi, your links are broken...

Oops, sorry... I just copied them from the following SR post (but Firefox apparently copied the shortened display rather than the actual link):

http://forums.storagereview.net/index.php?...st&p=249197

These links should be right...

Translated:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...en&ie=UTF-8

Original:

http://www.forumdeluxx.de/forum/showthread...813&page=31

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the direct link for ES Tool 2.11 http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd...es/ES_Tool.html

I wish Samsung would make more sense in what they do. How does HUTIL 2.10 become ES-Tool 2.11? What the heck is ES-Tool compared to HUTIL? Why does HUTIL still list the F1 series among the drives it should be used for? Why doesn't ES-Tool have a chart of what drives it should be used for? Samsung just continues to handle this in the most sloppy and unprofessional manner. I finally returned two of my four 1 TB drives for a refund and will probably buy Hitachi drives instead. I will retest my other two drives with ES-Tool as soon as my system is back up and running (non-related problem has it down for another week or so).

Edited by fmny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How does HUTIL 2.10 become ES-Tool 2.11? What the heck is ES-Tool compared to HUTIL?

Look at the red bar at the bottom of the first screenshot in the page you linked.

[Y] AGREE, RUN HUTIL

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

from the german site, i assume you either run a patch/firmware upgrade on the HD or an updated version of the HUTIL doesn't show the error?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now