slimeballzz

What is the best 7200 rpm drive to replace my Raptor?

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Right now I have a 74GB 16MB Raptor and the heat and noise it generates is really bothering me.

I know I'm going to take a performance hit moving to a 7200rpm drive but are there any 7200rpm drives that can perform close to it and at the same time have a lower heat and noise output?

I don't need much storage space as I'm doing just fine with 74GB but any extra would be a bonus.

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This website makes that easy: http://www.storagereview.com/Testbed4Compare.sr

If you want low noise AND really good performance, I think you won't get both your wishes. The quietest drives have the lowest performance. The fastest drives are the most noisy.

I guess a 750GB SE16 would be a good middle ground on the high end of performance. I like the SE16s.

Edited by Loomy

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This website makes that easy: http://www.storagereview.com/Testbed4Compare.sr

If you want low noise AND really good performance, I think you won't get both your wishes. The quietest drives have the lowest performance. The fastest drives are the most noisy.

From what I've heard high, platter densities means low platter count an that in turn means low noise and high speed. It's true though that some of the new "green" harddrives run 5400rpm most of the time to reduce power consumption and noise, and in that case you're right.

AFAIR the guys at silentpcreview are in favor of the samsungs with 166's - should be both quiet and good performing. To me that's another reason to wait another month for an F1 review...

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There's rumors of a new Raptor coming around soon, but nobody knows when or what upgrades it will have.

now im very hesitant on getting 150gb raptor after so much planning..

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I would go with ebaying seagate 10k.2 savvio 73gig drive you should be able to get 1 for under $160 EASY NEW.

be patient i see them on ebay for mush less every week

PROVANTAGE.COM FOR PROMISE TX2650 SAS CONTROLLER FOR $70 SAME SPEED AND COMPLETELY SILENT and now you are sas scsi ready.

cost more than sata yew but well worth it

GOOD LUCK

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Seems like I should be waiting for a F1 review.

As for a new Raptor generation, who knows when it will ever come out?

I would go with ebaying seagate 10k.2 savvio 73gig drive you should be able to get 1 for under $160 EASY NEW.

be patient i see them on ebay for mush less every week

PROVANTAGE.COM FOR PROMISE TX2650 SAS CONTROLLER FOR $70 SAME SPEED AND COMPLETELY SILENT and now you are sas scsi ready.

cost more than sata yew but well worth it

GOOD LUCK

This seems like an interesting alternative. However, I'm still skeptical on the noise of the drive... SPCR did a review of a 7200 rpm notebook drive found here: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article771-page1.html and they mention the noise is no better than a standard desktop drive.

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Here's some drives suggested so far...

LINK

I'd steer away from Savvio. It's a server drive and doesn't cope well with desktop workloads. As you see, it trails even 7200.11/ES.2 ... which also happens to be lethargic performer and not a drive you'd be comparing to when talking about high performance. That comparison is also a good example that desktop optimized 5400rpm drive can outperform server-optimized 7200rpm/10000rpm/15000rpm drives.

At 1000GB capacity point, I'd see three real contestants with each having their own strengths:

7K1000 for absolute performance

WD10EACS for silence and low power consumption

Samsung F1 for something from between these other two options.

SCSI drives (+ Seagate SATA drives) are for people who want performance for server environment. They are neither quiet nor good performers in real-life benchmarks. 2.5" SCSIs (designed for blade servers) are noisewise better than 3.5" SCSIs but their firmware optimization ensures they need not to be taken too seriously as an option.

Also, if you don't need 1000GB, you can look at other recent HDDs that use their platter surface efficiently (at high density and without short-stroking). For ultimate silencing, go for 2.5" SATA drives at either 7200rpm or 5400rpm. 2.5" SATAs do require a sacrifice on performance but it's not a big sacrifice as they are still optimized for real-life use. You'll also need to pay a bit more per GB but not nearly as much as with Savvios. Also, high price/GB doesn't necessarily matter at low GBs - going for oversized HDD just because it has low price/GB is stupid if you'd end up not using the extra capacity.

Here's an example comparison with 7200rpm laptop drives against 10000rpm Savvio and 15000rpm Savvio.

LINK

Both Savvios lose in 3 out of 5 scenarios against Travelstar 7K200... 15000rpm Savvio just loses by a smaller margin but still... why pay extra for something that's just going to suck less?

SCSI HDDs are only good for servers and for bragging rights. For 99% of real-life single-user applications, they'd simply suck (and there is evidence of it too, right here on SR Performance Database). Some people claim the opposite, but lack the evidence, talking about "snappiness" offered by (physically) fast seeks, and the "feel" of the HDD. I just consider it pure BS. Bursting data out of cache is much faster than any seek time, no matter how fast and that's why desktop optimized low-rpm drives are faster than high-rpm server HDDs.

Also, saying any HDD (even 2.5" 5400rpm) "completely silent" is BS. Silent = no noise at all. Completely silent is something supernatural for any mechanical drive and it will always be. "Quiet", possibly, "silent", never. I can barely hear my Samsung 2.5" 5400rpm HDD but I can still hear it. (Admittedly I have swapped and undervolted PSU fan, and replaced CPU cooler with a high-rise heatpipe tower so noise level of my computer is very low making even the faintest coil whine from mobo or inside PSU stand out.)

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Here's some drives suggested so far...

LINK

I'd steer away from Savvio. It's a server drive and doesn't cope well with desktop workloads. As you see, it trails even 7200.11/ES.2 ... which also happens to be lethargic performer and not a drive you'd be comparing to when talking about high performance. That comparison is also a good example that desktop optimized 5400rpm drive can outperform server-optimized 7200rpm/10000rpm/15000rpm drives.

At 1000GB capacity point, I'd see three real contestants with each having their own strengths:

7K1000 for absolute performance

WD10EACS for silence and low power consumption

Samsung F1 for something from between these other two options.

SCSI drives (+ Seagate SATA drives) are for people who want performance for server environment. They are neither quiet nor good performers in real-life benchmarks. 2.5" SCSIs (designed for blade servers) are noisewise better than 3.5" SCSIs but their firmware optimization ensures they need not to be taken too seriously as an option.

Also, if you don't need 1000GB, you can look at other recent HDDs that use their platter surface efficiently (at high density and without short-stroking). For ultimate silencing, go for 2.5" SATA drives at either 7200rpm or 5400rpm. 2.5" SATAs do require a sacrifice on performance but it's not a big sacrifice as they are still optimized for real-life use. You'll also need to pay a bit more per GB but not nearly as much as with Savvios. Also, high price/GB doesn't necessarily matter at low GBs - going for oversized HDD just because it has low price/GB is stupid if you'd end up not using the extra capacity.

Here's an example comparison with 7200rpm laptop drives against 10000rpm Savvio and 15000rpm Savvio.

LINK

Both Savvios lose in 3 out of 5 scenarios against Travelstar 7K200... 15000rpm Savvio just loses by a smaller margin but still... why pay extra for something that's just going to suck less?

SCSI HDDs are only good for servers and for bragging rights. For 99% of real-life single-user applications, they'd simply suck (and there is evidence of it too, right here on SR Performance Database). Some people claim the opposite, but lack the evidence, talking about "snappiness" offered by (physically) fast seeks, and the "feel" of the HDD. I just consider it pure BS. Bursting data out of cache is much faster than any seek time, no matter how fast and that's why desktop optimized low-rpm drives are faster than high-rpm server HDDs.

Also, saying any HDD (even 2.5" 5400rpm) "completely silent" is BS. Silent = no noise at all. Completely silent is something supernatural for any mechanical drive and it will always be. "Quiet", possibly, "silent", never. I can barely hear my Samsung 2.5" 5400rpm HDD but I can still hear it. (Admittedly I have swapped and undervolted PSU fan, and replaced CPU cooler with a high-rise heatpipe tower so noise level of my computer is very low making even the faintest coil whine from mobo or inside PSU stand out.)

Here's some drives suggested so far...

LINK

I'd steer away from Savvio. It's a server drive and doesn't cope well with desktop workloads. As you see, it trails even 7200.11/ES.2 ... which also happens to be lethargic performer and not a drive you'd be comparing to when talking about high performance. That comparison is also a good example that desktop optimized 5400rpm drive can outperform server-optimized 7200rpm/10000rpm/15000rpm drives.

At 1000GB capacity point, I'd see three real contestants with each having their own strengths:

7K1000 for absolute performance

WD10EACS for silence and low power consumption

Samsung F1 for something from between these other two options.

SCSI drives (+ Seagate SATA drives) are for people who want performance for server environment. They are neither quiet nor good performers in real-life benchmarks. 2.5" SCSIs (designed for blade servers) are noisewise better than 3.5" SCSIs but their firmware optimization ensures they need not to be taken too seriously as an option.

Also, if you don't need 1000GB, you can look at other recent HDDs that use their platter surface efficiently (at high density and without short-stroking). For ultimate silencing, go for 2.5" SATA drives at either 7200rpm or 5400rpm. 2.5" SATAs do require a sacrifice on performance but it's not a big sacrifice as they are still optimized for real-life use. You'll also need to pay a bit more per GB but not nearly as much as with Savvios. Also, high price/GB doesn't necessarily matter at low GBs - going for oversized HDD just because it has low price/GB is stupid if you'd end up not using the extra capacity.

Here's an example comparison with 7200rpm laptop drives against 10000rpm Savvio and 15000rpm Savvio.

LINK

Both Savvios lose in 3 out of 5 scenarios against Travelstar 7K200... 15000rpm Savvio just loses by a smaller margin but still... why pay extra for something that's just going to suck less?

SCSI HDDs are only good for servers and for bragging rights. For 99% of real-life single-user applications, they'd simply suck (and there is evidence of it too, right here on SR Performance Database). Some people claim the opposite, but lack the evidence, talking about "snappiness" offered by (physically) fast seeks, and the "feel" of the HDD. I just consider it pure BS. Bursting data out of cache is much faster than any seek time, no matter how fast and that's why desktop optimized low-rpm drives are faster than high-rpm server HDDs.

Also, saying any HDD (even 2.5" 5400rpm) "completely silent" is BS. Silent = no noise at all. Completely silent is something supernatural for any mechanical drive and it will always be. "Quiet", possibly, "silent", never. I can barely hear my Samsung 2.5" 5400rpm HDD but I can still hear it. (Admittedly I have swapped and undervolted PSU fan, and replaced CPU cooler with a high-rise heatpipe tower so noise level of my computer is very low making even the faintest coil whine from mobo or inside PSU stand out.)

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sry clicking wrong buttons

sas is a beast in it's own and untill you use it ,

i don't think there is any convincing you.

all i can say is drive benchmarks don't always mimick real word use.

you just have to try it.

there's a reason for them having a price premium.

best regards

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Right now I have a 74GB 16MB Raptor and the heat and noise it generates is really bothering me.

I know I'm going to take a performance hit moving to a 7200rpm drive but are there any 7200rpm drives that can perform close to it and at the same time have a lower heat and noise output?

I don't need much storage space as I'm doing just fine with 74GB but any extra would be a bonus.

Get a Western Digital Caviar SE hard drive. They are extremely quiet, especially if you get one that has one platter.

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The Samsung F1 drive review is up over at Tomshardware. The benchmarks show that it has the best performance. I just question the noise now.. Hopefully storagereview can get their hands on the 320, 640, or 1 TB models and put them in to the database for comparison...

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There's rumors of a new Raptor coming around soon, but nobody knows when or what upgrades it will have.

now im very hesitant on getting 150gb raptor after so much planning..

Heh, sorry about that :P

You could still pull the trigger on your Raptor if you really feel like it, but there's better performing [read/write speeds only] 7200RPM drives out now, like the 7K1000 or 7200.11 or F1 when/if it comes out.

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There's rumors of a new Raptor coming around soon, but nobody knows when or what upgrades it will have.

now im very hesitant on getting 150gb raptor after so much planning..

Heh, sorry about that :P

You could still pull the trigger on your Raptor if you really feel like it, but there's better performing [read/write speeds only] 7200RPM drives out now, like the 7K1000 or 7200.11 or F1 when/if it comes out.

yeah exactly. that 74Gb raptor (and even the 150Gb) are old designs now. the 7k1000 seem as fast if not faster than my 150 raptor, so it'll beat the older raptor easy.

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aren't random access times still fastest on raptors [which theoretically] should make a visible difference in day to day use?

Not sure, since I don't have the 7k100 or f1 [yet] ..... still using the raptor as primary drive ...

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hieuu: "sas is a beast in it's own and untill you use it ,

i don't think there is any convincing you.

all i can say is drive benchmarks don't always mimick real word use.

you just have to try it."

This is just what I meant. You don't have any proof but claim something not too far away from claims about "snappiness factor". I believe that it's just "self-suggestion factor" unless there's some numbers that prove Savvio faster in desktop use.

hieuu: "there's a reason for them having a price premium."

There's two reasons actually: enterprise sector... and idiots. Both of which don't care about the cost.

There's no proof Savvio is superior as a desktop drive and price is not the proof I'm looking for even though some of you think that alone is enough of a proof.

badtz: "access times --- [which theoretically] should make a visible difference in day to day use?"

I'm not sure which "theory" you're referring to. Tom's Hardware theory?

Really, desktop performance isn't about random access time since that kind of use is far from random. Nor is it always sequential. Sometimes it's simultaneous reading/writing of several streams at once and there caching algorithm plays a huge role. It's only measurable with real-world benchmarking and no specs or HDD Tach can determine the results.

No matter how fast the seek speed is, it's always faster to read from cache and not seek at all.

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The Raptor 150 GB I have in my Mac Pro used to be quite audible (more so than in the previous computer), due to the way it was attached to the case: it's fixed onto an aluminum frame with screws, and the frame touches the aluminum case -> amplified noise.

So I bought rubber mounts and put the drive in the lower 5.25" bay, and now it's hardly audible at all (seeks are now very muted, whereas before they were rather obtrusive; idle (spinning) noise wasn't a problem before and still isn't).

If you have a free 5.25" slot you might want to give your Raptor a second chance, by using rubber mounts or some other means of decoupling, like elastic suspension.

The Raptor 150 GB I have in my Mac Pro used to be quite audible (more so than in the previous computer), due to the way it was attached to the case: it's fixed onto an aluminum frame with screws, and the frame touches the aluminum case -> amplified noise.

So I bought rubber mounts and put the drive in the lower 5.25" bay, and now it's hardly audible at all (seeks are now very muted, whereas before they were rather obtrusive; idle (spinning) noise wasn't a problem before and still isn't).

If you have a free 5.25" slot you might want to give your Raptor a second chance, by using rubber mounts or some other means of decoupling, like elastic suspension.

Right now I have a 74GB 16MB Raptor and the heat and noise it generates is really bothering me.

I know I'm going to take a performance hit moving to a 7200rpm drive but are there any 7200rpm drives that can perform close to it and at the same time have a lower heat and noise output?

I don't need much storage space as I'm doing just fine with 74GB but any extra would be a bonus.

The Raptor 150 GB I have in my Mac Pro used to be quite audible (more so than in the previous computer), due to the way it was attached to the case: it's fixed onto an aluminum frame with screws, and the frame touches the aluminum case -> amplified noise.

So I bought rubber mounts and put the drive in the lower 5.25" bay, and now it's hardly audible at all (seeks are now very muted, whereas before they were rather obtrusive; idle (spinning) noise wasn't a problem before and still isn't).

If you have a free 5.25" slot you might want to give your Raptor a second chance, by using rubber mounts or some other means of decoupling, like elastic suspension.

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Right now I have a 74GB 16MB Raptor and the heat and noise it generates is really bothering me.

I know I'm going to take a performance hit moving to a 7200rpm drive but are there any 7200rpm drives that can perform close to it and at the same time have a lower heat and noise output?

I don't need much storage space as I'm doing just fine with 74GB but any extra would be a bonus.

The Raptor 150 GB I have in my Mac Pro used to be quite audible (more so than in the previous computer), due to the way it was attached to the case: it's fixed onto an aluminum frame with screws, and the frame touches the aluminum case -> amplified noise.

So I bought rubber mounts and put the drive in the lower 5.25" bay, and now it's hardly audible at all (seeks are now very muted, whereas before they were rather obtrusive; idle (spinning) noise wasn't a problem before and still isn't).

If you have a free 5.25" slot you might want to give your Raptor a second chance, by using rubber mounts or some other means of decoupling, like elastic suspension.

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hieuu: "sas is a beast in it's own and untill you use it ,

i don't think there is any convincing you.

all i can say is drive benchmarks don't always mimick real word use.

you just have to try it."

This is just what I meant. You don't have any proof but claim something not too far away from claims about "snappiness factor". I believe that it's just "self-suggestion factor" unless there's some numbers that prove Savvio faster in desktop use.

hieuu: "there's a reason for them having a price premium."

There's two reasons actually: enterprise sector... and idiots. Both of which don't care about the cost.

There's no proof Savvio is superior as a desktop drive and price is not the proof I'm looking for even though some of you think that alone is enough of a proof.

badtz: "access times --- [which theoretically] should make a visible difference in day to day use?"

I'm not sure which "theory" you're referring to. Tom's Hardware theory?

Really, desktop performance isn't about random access time since that kind of use is far from random. Nor is it always sequential. Sometimes it's simultaneous reading/writing of several streams at once and there caching algorithm plays a huge role. It's only measurable with real-world benchmarking and no specs or HDD Tach can determine the results.

No matter how fast the seek speed is, it's always faster to read from cache and not seek at all.

well benchmarks are like statistics, they can support any viewpoint you want. storagereview have been in this game a lot longer than i have, and i trust them to know better than me. they say the 7k1000 is the best desktop drive around at the moment (according to leaderboard and the comparisons), so i got one :). i have a WD1500ADFD as well. Though to be honest I don't obsess about the speed too much - my other drive is the WD RE2, which i bought because it was 20% cheaper and SR showed it getting close enough to the leader at the time in the 500gb space (T7K500).

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"well benchmarks are like statistics, they can support any viewpoint you want. storagereview have been in this game a lot longer than i have, and i trust them to know better than me."

I agree. I also trust StorageReview more than my own hunch. And SR has proven Savvio sucks in desktop performance. I consider this a good basis to form my own opinion on Savvio as a good option for desktop use. hieuu has apparently ignored these results, even though they are more scientifically collected than his own hunch.

I guess the "snappiness" argument will prevail, no matter how much real numbers we'd bring to discussion trying to prove a SCSI inferior in desktop environment. People who worship rpm will continue to worship rpm. I would hope this idiotism / piss contest would some day come to an end... after all, even Intel came to it's senses after Prescott core: GHz (or rpm) alone provides no real-life performance.

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aren't random access times still fastest on raptors [which theoretically] should make a visible difference in day to day use?

Random access time (and seek time) is always given as an average for the full drive capacity.

But the Raptor is 150GB only...

Now if you will create a 150GB partition at the beginning of 1TB 7200rpm drive then it covers so narrow area that the average access time inside this partition is in fact the same or even better than the average access time for 150GB 10000rpm Raptor!

There's the main reason... Plus add also better firmwares for contemporary top-capacity drives and their higher platter/head count too...

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aren't random access times still fastest on raptors [which theoretically] should make a visible difference in day to day use?

Random access time (and seek time) is always given as an average for the full drive capacity.

But the Raptor is 150GB only...

Now if you will create a 150GB partition at the beginning of 1TB 7200rpm drive then it covers so narrow area that the average access time inside this partition is in fact the same or even better than the average access time for 150GB 10000rpm Raptor!

There's the main reason... Plus add also better firmwares for contemporary top-capacity drives and their higher platter/head count too...

Thanks for clearing that up :) Interesting that the Raptor's 10k spindle drive wouldn't make a difference.

How would you ensure that your OS gets installed in the partition at the beginning of the drive? Is it installed there by default on an erase+install of an OS?

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