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imsabbel

160 GB Flash SSD anounced

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Looks like the 40GB version of the adtron drives is already costing 10K+ in bulk, so I cant imagine where this will fall into line.

http://www.wdlsystems.com/modperl/view_ser...mp;aisle_id=291

Once the price comes down this should be pretty impressive, however I cant imagine a use for this that makes it worth 10k, especially considering that catastrophic failure on flash cant be recovered from. While a HDD could be sent off to have the data recovered (Albeit not cheap, but less than 12k).

Edited by krotchy

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If your backup plan includes "recovery from failed HD", then you dont deserve it any better.

And yeah, 10k is far too expensive. ( Would have been a good price 18 months ago, but god did the flash price nosedive).

But the 500us acess time is also quite nice, if it were less expensive.

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Hopefully prices can come down soon, I would love to get rid of all types of rotating platters.

Seriously, I think that 15krpm drives will suffer soon, they amount of IO's that flash drives can handle makes them look really good (even considering their price).

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Guest 888
Looks like the 40GB version of the adtron drives is already costing 10K+ in bulk, so I cant imagine where this will fall into line.

Yeah, Adtron is one of the most expensive manufacturers. May-be they can sell to military only with such a pricing... This new 160GB package will really cost over $40,000 (the flash drives pricing has pretty much been proportional to the capacity so far). But there are cheaper manufacturers too - in example PQI's 32GB 2.5" PATA package costs just below $1600 now. During the last couple of months its price has already dropped by about 30%. And probably this is not even the cheapest brand...

Interesting... how big is the profit margin put on these flash-drives now?

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Hopefully prices can come down soon, I would love to get rid of all types of rotating platters.

Seriously, I think that 15krpm drives will suffer soon, they amount of IO's that flash drives can handle makes them look really good (even considering their price).

Well, i personally like the concept of a tiered storage system at home.

I dont want to give up HDs for mass storage (I mean, it would be just a waste to store TBs of tivo recordings or such on flash...). My perfect scenario would be something like 100Gbyte flash in front of a >TB HD Raid array, in a hybrid configuration (i.e. normal use will never touch the RAID).

Should be definitively possible and affordable the next 18 months (just noticed that bulk flash reached the 6€ /Gbyte barrier over here...)

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Hopefully prices can come down soon, I would love to get rid of all types of rotating platters.

Seriously, I think that 15krpm drives will suffer soon, they amount of IO's that flash drives can handle makes them look really good (even considering their price).

Well, i personally like the concept of a tiered storage system at home.

I dont want to give up HDs for mass storage (I mean, it would be just a waste to store TBs of tivo recordings or such on flash...). My perfect scenario would be something like 100Gbyte flash in front of a >TB HD Raid array, in a hybrid configuration (i.e. normal use will never touch the RAID).

Should be definitively possible and affordable the next 18 months (just noticed that bulk flash reached the 6€ /Gbyte barrier over here...)

I think your mind and mine are quite well aligned :). For my home computers it seems possible that the next large upgrade will be to replace all system drives with flash based alternatives in the 16-32 GB range as soon as price becomes resonable, perhaps this year?! Rest of the storage will be on "traditional" drives in a file server. Archive and backup will probably be on rotating media for several years but I can live with that.

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Many OLTP databases are in the 100-200GB range, and severely limited by IO. This device is invaluable to shops like ours (Granted, we're just under 100TB total). Don't compare this to other consumer storage devices yet. Compare this to enterprise offerings like Netapp and Hitachi.

Other that OLTP, these drives are good for other types of non-atomic database profiles like JMS tables and FAC. Once they succeed in the enterprise, the price will come down a bit and will "reinvent" itself as a high end consumer drive (like the Raptor did).

Thank you for your time,

Frank Russo

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You can use fast compact flash cards and get into the 16-32GB range now, for under $600. I think I'll be doing that in another couple of months. It occurred to me that I could run my old PII laptop off 16GB pretty comfortably, with a dual CF to 2.5" IDE adapter.

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One thing had me wondering...

Why would a flash SSD actually use SATA or something like that?

Wouldnt it make sense to put it on a PCI-Express card?

Size isnt an issue with flash, really. there is plenty of space on a medium lenght PCI-e- card for a tons of flash. Power via the connector. 250Mbyte/s bidirectional transfer rate even for 1x, DMA-style transfer, ect....

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One thing had me wondering...

Why would a flash SSD actually use SATA or something like that?

Wouldnt it make sense to put it on a PCI-Express card?

Size isnt an issue with flash, really. there is plenty of space on a medium lenght PCI-e- card for a tons of flash. Power via the connector. 250Mbyte/s bidirectional transfer rate even for 1x, DMA-style transfer, ect....

Backward compatibility. Even though the device driver for a native PCI-e based chunk of memory would be braindead easy to write, you'd have to actually write and distribute it. If you emulate a disk drive, you sacrifice maximum performance, but you don't have to write any new driver.

I've got 3 laptops here with regular 2.5" IDE bays. I'd love to get a decent SSD to drop into each of them. None of them have PCIe slots. Going with the hard drive interface route gives them a larger potential market. And anyway, nobody has put enough flash chips in parallel yet to warrant a faster interface. This Adtron is only 70MB/sec - that's definitely fast for a laptop drive, but still less than "UDMA-100" 100MB/sec.

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One thing had me wondering...

Why would a flash SSD actually use SATA or something like that?

Wouldnt it make sense to put it on a PCI-Express card?

Size isnt an issue with flash, really. there is plenty of space on a medium lenght PCI-e- card for a tons of flash. Power via the connector. 250Mbyte/s bidirectional transfer rate even for 1x, DMA-style transfer, ect....

Backward compatibility. Even though the device driver for a native PCI-e based chunk of memory would be braindead easy to write, you'd have to actually write and distribute it. If you emulate a disk drive, you sacrifice maximum performance, but you don't have to write any new driver.

I've got 3 laptops here with regular 2.5" IDE bays. I'd love to get a decent SSD to drop into each of them. None of them have PCIe slots. Going with the hard drive interface route gives them a larger potential market. And anyway, nobody has put enough flash chips in parallel yet to warrant a faster interface. This Adtron is only 70MB/sec - that's definitely fast for a laptop drive, but still less than "UDMA-100" 100MB/sec.

I am aware of that fact.

But i wasnt really talking about $500 style replacement flash drives.

I was talking about $40k drives like the one linked in this thread.

Obviously, a system would be designed around such a expensive piece of hardware, which would invalidate most of the compatibility problems.

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I am aware of that fact.

But i wasnt really talking about $500 style replacement flash drives.

I was talking about $40k drives like the one linked in this thread.

Obviously, a system would be designed around such a expensive piece of hardware, which would invalidate most of the compatibility problems.

Maybe. The military does tend to dump tons of money into single-use systems, but most other enterprises will want a support path. Custom interfaces for custom devices are inherently non-starters in most of those cases.

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Hello,

does anybody know if file defragmentation and NCQ are still relevant for SSDs?

I gather file fragmentation will stll occur in these drives but the question is whether defragmentation will have any effect on their perfomance or just waste their write cycles.

And NCQ, isn't this developed for motor disks or is it still useful for this kind of drives?

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Hello,

does anybody know if file defragmentation and NCQ are still relevant for SSDs?

Fragmentation is a Microsoft issue, and not a hardware issue, so no. NCQ is designed to offset the performance impact of seeks. SSD's have no parts with which to do seeks, so no.

Frank

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Hello,

does anybody know if file defragmentation and NCQ are still relevant for SSDs?

Fragmentation is a Microsoft issue, and not a hardware issue, so no. NCQ is designed to offset the performance impact of seeks. SSD's have no parts with which to do seeks, so no.

Frank

That's not entirely true, although probably the difference is unnoticeable.

Flash memory is organized in pages and blocks. Memory accesses within a single page are faster than accesses that cross page boundaries. So, it is possible for fragmentation to make a difference. But again, the time scale is so small it probably won't be noticable.

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