Gilbo

ZFS has been released.

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ZFS is an easy to manage, ridiculously scaleable filesystem Sun developed for Solaris 10. Its design emphasizes insane data security, scaleable performance, and very easy management.

Start here for more information. There was also a brief discussion here on SR a couple years ago when information on the technology it was to employ first began to come to light.

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Yes, the wait is over, I feel like buying new disks just to study ZFS at home ;)

Seriously, check out this nice summary, see how passionate those developers are.

http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/bmc#welcome_to_zfs

This is how software should be done, regardless opensource or not.

"584 files, 92,000 lines of change, 56 patents, 5 years... and there it is. Just like that."

-- Jeff Bonwick

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Olaf, I know Sun uses Solaris, but that's all. I've never been in front of a Sun machine, thus wouldn't know Solaris if I saw it :) Is it like Linux where you can download it for free (opensource)? Or is it proprietary stuff & only runs on Sun hardware? Sorry if these questions seem ridiculous, but I have no clue 'bout this stuff. Most of it is way over my head anyways, though the Jeff Bonwick article was pretty interesting.

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Olaf, I know Sun uses Solaris, but that's all. I've never been in front of a Sun machine, thus wouldn't know Solaris if I saw it :) Is it like Linux where you can download it for free (opensource)? Or is it proprietary stuff & only runs on Sun hardware? Sorry if these questions seem ridiculous, but I have no clue 'bout this stuff. Most of it is way over my head anyways, though the Jeff Bonwick article was pretty interesting.

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Sol10 has either CDE or GNOME as available window manager's (or GUIs if one wants to be less technical), so if you've used a fairly common Linux Distro (Redhat, SUSE) that uses GNOME, then you should be fairly at home with the GUI. However, the similarities are only skin deep. Solaris is very different underneath... (think a mix of BSD, SYS V and Linux).

Sol9 and Sol10 both work on SPARC systems, as well as your common variety x86 and AMD64 systems, (but don't expect the same level of driver support as Windows, Check the HCL (Hardware Compatibility List) before attempting to install Solaris on x86 systems).

Sol9 and Sol10 can be downloaded for SPARC and x86 at no charge, however you are limited to "single" CPU systems, and only for non-commercial (aka home) usage, and don't expect any support direct from Sun.

Download Sol10: http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp

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Sol9 and Sol10 can be downloaded for SPARC and x86 at no charge, however you are limited to "single" CPU systems, and only for non-commercial (aka home) usage, and don't expect any support direct from Sun.

Solaris 10 is free of charge even for commerical use, and I am not aware of any CPU limitation. I run S10 on Dual-Opteron system.

$120 /year/socket gives you _immediate_ access to patches, otherwise you can wait for "update release" which includes everything free of charge.

Security and driver patches, and their dependencies are immediately availabe free of charge.

These have been asked/dicussed many may times on various forums.

However, I am sure RonJeremy is only interested (if at all) in the lastest Solaris Express (beta release for Solaris 11, based on OpenSolaris) release, which is where ZFS is just released.

http://www.opensolaris.org/os/downloads/

or

http://www.genunix.org/mirror/index.html

The whole kernel, and most major parts of OpenSolaris are opensourced, including the most significant features: ZFS, DTrace, Zone, SMF, JDS etc.

Hope this helps.

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Thanks fer the link. However, I think I've got my sadomasochistic tendencies under control for the moment. When I lose it & wish to inflict mental anguish upon myself, I'll be sure to install it....

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Thanks fer the link. However, I think I've got my sadomasochistic tendencies under control for the moment. When I lose it & wish to inflict mental anguish upon myself, I'll be sure to install it....

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You're welcome. LOL! Like the way you put it.

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Solaris 10 is free of charge even for commerical use, and I am not aware of any CPU limitation.

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Didn't know that, thanks for the update.

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Sol10 has either CDE or GNOME as available window manager's (or GUIs if one wants to be less technical), so if you've used a fairly common Linux Distro (Redhat, SUSE) that uses GNOME, then you should be fairly at home with the GUI. However, the similarities are only skin deep. Solaris is very different underneath... (think a mix of BSD, SYS V and Linux).

Sol9 and Sol10 both work on SPARC systems, as well as your common variety x86 and AMD64 systems, (but don't expect the same level of driver support as Windows, Check the HCL (Hardware Compatibility List) before attempting to install Solaris on x86 systems).

Sol9 and Sol10 can be downloaded for SPARC and x86 at no charge, however you are limited to "single" CPU systems, and only for non-commercial (aka home) usage, and don't expect any support direct from Sun.

Download Sol10: http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/get.jsp

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Huh, being technical are we Chew? Well technically I prefer Ms Aqua GUI myself(oh sorrry, this should be in the B&G I think ;P ). Let me think here, MacOSX has as it's underpinnings the BSD stuff?, which is kind of like a Unix implementation; and if rumors be true, at Macworld SF in Jan. '06 well see the 1st Yonah Apple laptops...so, can this Solaris stuff, which used to be minicomputer/mainframe stuff, be installed on an Mactel laptop???

Thanks fer the link. However, I think I've got my sadomasochistic tendencies under control for the moment. When I lose it & wish to inflict mental anguish upon myself, I'll be sure to install it....

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Well speak for yourself RJ, a little Asian persuasion sadomasochistic fun could just be what you need (same for HTMK)... update to Chew509's jumping ship forth coming ;).

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Solaris 10 is free of charge even for commerical use, and I am not aware of any CPU limitation.

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Didn't know that, thanks for the update.

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They changed their licensing when they announced that they were liberating the source code.

so, can this Solaris stuff, which used to be minicomputer/mainframe stuff, be installed on an Mactel laptop???

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Yep. Solaris lacks support for most laptop niceties though. It's driver support for desktop/laptop-type hardware is far inferior to Linux.

I vould like to see it in linux, but unvortunately it probably wount be portet due licensing incompatibilities :(

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Sun's CDDL license choice was very unfortunate. Source fragmentation due to incompatible licenses like Sun's CDDL is becoming more and more of a problem as companies pretend that they are contributing to open source software, but in all practicality prevent the integration of their code into other projects. I understand that they don't want something like the CentOS situation developing, but they turned what could have been a tremendously useful contribution to the advancement of OS technology into a half-hearted gesture that was barely a shadow of its potential. Examination of the code and its intricacies is still valuable, but all that work will now have to be duplicated... what a waste --exactly like the situation with proprietary code.

DTrace is being ported to FreeBSD though. The BSD license is not viral and consequently the BSDs can integrate with Sun's code. Given this, it's possible they could also port ZFS if they wanted to. That would be very nice :).

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Sun's CDDL license choice was very unfortunate.  Source fragmentation due to incompatible licenses like Sun's CDDL is becoming more and more of a problem as companies pretend that they are contributing to open source software, but in all practicality prevent the integration of their code into other projects.  I understand that they don't want something like the CentOS situation developing, but they turned what could have been a tremendously useful contribution to the advancement of OS technology into a half-hearted gesture that was barely a shadow of its potential.  Examination of the code and its intricacies is still valuable, but all that work will now have to be duplicated... what a waste --exactly like the situation with proprietary code.

"pretend"? "what a waste"?

I think it's very unfortunate some people have this "it's either GPL (I presume that's what you're thinking?) way or no way" attitude, which leads to a very strange interpretation of what's happening here.

Sun has invested millions of dollars in developing these features and released them in source, which about every other open souce license except GPL can take the code and integrate them into their own product (if they're capable of doing it), and you're accusing Sun for not letting GPL software simply copy it?

Sun repeatedly explained one of the main reasons they're not able to choose GPL is there're some part of Solaris they simply don't have the right to distribute in source, which means it won't be possible to opensource Solaris at all if GPL is used.

I'll stop here, don't want to turn this into a redundant debate on on Storage forum.

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"pretend"? "what a waste"?

I think it's very unfortunate some people have this "it's either GPL (I presume that's what you're thinking?) way or no way" attitude, which leads to a very strange interpretation of what's happening here.

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I don't have that attitude at all. There are many mainstream licenses other than the GPL which are very excellent choices for all sorts of software. The problem is one of license fragmentation. I thought that was clear.

If you can't understand that incompabibility with the licensing model that governs the distribution of the vast majority of open source core system libraries and utilities --huge numbers of which Sun leverages to make Solaris work properly I might add-- is a huge disadvantage for the majority of open source developers and users then I have no idea what else to say to you. I don't understand how you can possibly be blind to the potential advantages of a GPL licensed ZFS. Now, if non-Sun open source developers, in all practicality, want to take advantage of ZFS' features they will have to duplicate all that effort. All those millions will have to be spent all over again. Albeit, seeing the internals is definitely valuable --no one can argue against that-- but the work still needs to be done all over again.

The licensing situation is a very unfortunate, very serious problem. I understand Sun's reasons. I noted that. None of those reasons change the fact that the licensing situation is a very serious impediment to developers and users of open source software, limiting the advantage such people can leverage from Sun's open-sourced, next-generation filesystem.

Incidentally, a linux port is apparently "being investigated".

Edited by Gilbo

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I don't understand how you can possibly be blind to the potential advantages of a GPL licensed ZFS. Now, if non-Sun open source developers, in all practicality, want to take advantage of ZFS' features they will have to duplicate all that effort.

I understand the advantages of everybody getting everything for free :-)

that is, until nobody wants to produce anything anymore.

Competition drives innovation.

No, they don't have to duplicate all that effort, they can use Solaris.

I don't work for Sun, don't do business with Sun. My thinking is that they want to make Solaris so much better than other OSs and so cheap, that people are willing to give up the other advantages of Sun competitors, just to run on Solaris.

A good example is their fight with IBM's pSeries , which has the advantage of chip performance, among other things. Sun wants to make Solaris/UltraSPARC a better combination than AIX/POWER or Linux/POWER, by making Solaris better than AIX/Linux, when their chip is slower.

When companies compete, who win? Customer.

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Competition drives innovation.

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That rhetoric is simplistic to the point of childishness. Problems in need of solutions demand innovation irregardless of competition.

Besides, even if we take your simplistic premise as true, most people compete, in many aspects of their lives, for reasons entirely other than money. For most people money is just an analogue for power and respect --the things they are actually competing for. And money isn't the only one way of getting those things.

Think about it, do people respect Lance Armstrong because he's rich? Do you think money was the force behind the competitive spirit that drove that man up the Pyrenees and the Alps? Every field of human endevour is dominated by similar people. People who want nothing more than money become middle managers and stock brokers --they don't innovate stinker. If you want to invent something there's got to be something more in your head than greed --you have to want to solve a problem, you have to want to prove something.

P.S. Aren't you the one who, a couple posts back, was lauding the passion of the ZFS developers. Whether you can articulate or not, whether you realize it or not, you understand and appreciate that there's a lot more than money behind any innovation.

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I meant to quote the following:

I understand the advantages of everybody getting everything for free :-)

that is, until nobody wants to produce anything anymore.

Competition drives innovation.

218754[/snapback]

Without the part about money and production the context of my crankiness isn't properly established.

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That rhetoric is simplistic to the point of childishness.  Problems in need of solutions demand innovation irregardless of competition.

Besides, even if we take your simplistic premise as true, most people compete, in many aspects of their lives, for reasons entirely other than money.  For most people money is just an analogue for power and respect --the things they are actually competing for.  And money isn't the only one way of getting those things. 

Think about it, do people respect Lance Armstrong because he's rich?  Do you think money was the force behind the competitive spirit that drove that man up the Pyrenees and the Alps?  Every field of human endevour is dominated by similar people.  People who want nothing more than money become middle managers and stock brokers --they don't innovate stinker.  If you want to invent something there's got to be something more in your head than greed --you have to want to solve a problem, you have to want to prove something.

P.S.  Aren't you the one who, a couple posts back, was lauding the passion of the ZFS developers.  Whether you can articulate or not, whether you realize it or not, you understand and appreciate that there's a lot more than money behind any innovation.

Ok, I knew this kind of debate isn't going anywhere.

I take your points and I am glad we all appreciate and share the passion for good technologies and innovations.

To try out ZFS, I need some input on building a small storage arrary.

For that I'd better make a new post. Cheers.

Edited by thesix

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