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jehh

White collar crime pays... - PayPal sucks...

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Well, I'm going to get $288.40 of the $950 from my PayPal account. They decided to steal $661.60 of my money without cause.

Of course, they have a no-sue clause, my only recourse is arbritration and you have to go to California to do that. After talking to my lawyer, he thinks I would win the cause, but the time, effort, and trouble are simply not worth $661.60. He advised me to take the $288.40 and never use PayPal again, so that is what I've done.

Anyway, if anyone here uses PayPal, just know that they can take your money and you have little recourse if they do. The money in your "account" is actually not yours, it is theirs legaly. They could fold tents tomorrow and take all the money in the system.

Services like C2IT are backed by a real bank (in that case, CitiBank), and your money is insured by the Federal Government (FDIC). If you need an on-line banking service, use one like that instead...

http://www.paypalwarning.com

Jason

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Can such a no-sue clause override the consumer laws in your State?

No, because the laws that apply are the laws of the State of California, not Texas. :(

Jason

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Wow, I'm glad my bank refused authorisation when I tried to add my CC to Paypal then. At first I was annoyed, bu now I realise they probably had lots of complaints about Paypal.

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Shouldn't this be in B&G?

No, because it is computer related, and because it is so imporant. :)

Jason

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I was under the impression that paypal is currently FDIC insured as their own bank and are in a legal battle trying to prove that because a federal agency is trying to revoke their bank status.

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Nope, definitely not a bank. A proper bank wouldn't be stealing money from customers accounts. In fact several States have asked Paypal to stop serving customers in their states.

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You could be like me and not keep any money in your PayPal account(example being I have a total of 6 cents in my account currently). I don't trust PayPal with actual money remaining in my account so I just make sure to leave none in that account. I hope they aren't stupid enough to try to make a transaction without my authorization in which case I would do something.

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jehh,

So why did PayPal decide to keep your money? Was there a reason or did PayPal "just decide' to?

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I've always been suspicious of them, and never trusted my bank routing number with them. It's limited how useful Paypal can be to me without handing over that number, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. There was something in the news lately about some court ruling that Paypal really isn't a bank according to federal law, so you can guess that they never were FDIC insured (federally insured). Paypal was actually happy about the ruling because it meant less regulation for them. Before that article, I checked their website and it says they are insured to $100,000 per account, just like FDIC insurance, but the insuring agency is not FDIC. I just checked their site, and it says TravelersInsurance is the insurer, and that it's insured to $100,000 against "unauthorized transactions", which, on second thought, only seems like a ploy to make their accounts appear as safe as an FDIC account.

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I was under the impression that paypal is currently FDIC insured as their own bank and are in a legal battle trying to prove that because a federal agency is trying to revoke their bank status.

No, PayPal is not, and never has been FDIC insured, and they are not a bank.

They are just a money transfer service, totally unregulated...

Jason

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You could be like me and not keep any money in your PayPal account(example being I have a total of 6 cents in my account currently).  I don't trust PayPal with actual money remaining in my account so I just make sure to leave none in that account.  I hope they aren't stupid enough to try to make a transaction without my authorization in which case I would do something.

I don't ever keep money there, I was paid the $950 and transfered it to my bank account within 15 minutes of getting it.

PayPal waited to do this until I had a reasonable amount of money in there, I've been using it for months, a few hundred here, a few hundred there...

They simply waited until I had enough money to bother with stealing.

Jason

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Nope, definitely not a bank. A proper bank wouldn't be stealing money from customers accounts. In fact several States have asked Paypal to stop serving customers in their states.

Yes, check out the posts on www.PayPalWarning.com, there are people who have $10,000 with them and haven't gotten it back, thousands and thousands of people have been screwed...

PayPal probably has millions of dollars of people's money.

4 states AGs are investigating, and there is a class action lawsuit on-going...

Jason

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jehh,

So why did PayPal decide to keep your money? Was there a reason or did PayPal "just decide' to?

Well, after 4 weeks, they finally did get around to talking to me. Before that, for the prior month they were totally unresponsive, no e-mails, no faxes, no phone calls, nothing. I contacted them nearly every day, to no avail. Their customer service sucks...

As for the issue at hand, several customers who sent money to Knight Technology last year had complaints on file. Now I'm not Knight Technology, this is was my personal account that has always been used for personal business. There was a business PayPal account that was closed last year that took all those payments (about $85,000 was run through it last year).

None of these customers had done anything in at least 3 months, they had all accepted that Knight Technology closed and was out of business. PayPal just all of a sudden decided I was somehow responsible for those complaints. Of course I do not have any of the tracking information, most of the orders were from September and October. In addition, Knight Technology was an LLC, all the money from the business PayPal account went into the business checking account. I was simply paid a salary. Anyone who knows the laws of America knows that a person cannot be held liable for the debts of an LLC. Sadly, PayPal isn't interested in following the law.

I talked to my attorney, and he told me I would almost certainly win. The problem is, PayPal has a no-sue clause, so I would have to arbitrate in California, which means either flying there, or just sending my complaint in writing and hope that works out. He advised me that for $661, it was not worth fighting over. PayPal was wrong, but sometimes you can spend more money fighting it and getting it back than you'll recover. So I dropped it.

PayPal has more or less broken federal law (by holding me responsible for the liabilities of an LLC), but they are not interested in this fact and I'm not interested in making a federal case out of it.

What PayPal did was steal my money, money that was personally mine, they had no right to. What upsets me so much about this is how little consumer protection there really is against companies...

If someone stole my money on the street, I can do something about that. If they steal it this way, there is little I can do.

I now see what so many people have been bitching about with corporate America for so long. America is far too friendly to big business, and no longer seems to respect the rights of the little guys. The fact that I could not sue PayPal is so un-American, I don't even know where to start... All no-sue clauses should be made illegal, part of what makes America great is our legal system. The fact that if you're wronged, you can seek redress via the court system. This is a small-claims court issue, it would have cost me $35 to file a small claims suit in my local courthouse. Because of the no-sue clause, I cannot do that.

A bit of my faith in America was lost today...

Jason

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So what's the best way to cancel PayPal service.  I've heard enough.  :D

Simple, just go into the profile section, there is a "close account" link at the bottom of the choices on the left. They will close the account and mail you a check for the rest of the money left in the account, if any.

Jason

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Shouldn't this be in B&G?

Hey, who moved this to the B&G?

"I don't get no respect..."

Jason

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Shouldn't this be in B&G?

Hey, who moved this to the B&G?

"I don't get no respect..."

Jason

Well, after hearing your story, I've gone in and closed my paypal account about 2 minutes ago. What a bunch of jerks...Sorry to hear you got screwed by paypal.

:twisted:

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Well, after hearing your story, I've gone in and closed my paypal account about 2 minutes ago.  What a bunch of jerks...Sorry to hear you got screwed by paypal.    

:twisted:

Thanks for the support.

Yea, now that there are other services like C2IT and others (see the links on the PayPal Warning web site for about a dozen other choices), there is no reason to use PayPal anymore...

I've gotten a several e-mails now after posting this, from people who have had similar things happen to them. PayPal is just doing this to too many people...

Sigh...

I guess if Enron got away with what they did...

Arg!

Jason

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After reading this a thought came to mind....

They clearly advertise at the bottom of their site that they ARE indeed FDIC insured.....we know this is not the case...so therefore, they have actually fruadulently missrepresented themselves as to the security of the funds they handle and transfer throught their service.....

Now, In thinking along these terms, they themselves, by their own actions have voided their "terms of service" aggreements by way of fraudulenty missrepresenting their level of service and monitary security by way of FALSE ADVERTISEMENT.....they CAN NOT advertise to the public that they are FDIC insured when in fact they aren't. By this act of false advertisement and fraudulent missrepresentation, their "no sue" clause can not be upheld, because they failed to truthfully inform their "clients" of their service. that alone voids the entire agreement.

I don't know If I may be right on this, but it seems that if ANY company, lies, mis-informs or intentionally withholds information to it's "clients" and those clients agree to certain specifics of a contract, that contract..or "user agreement" is void, due to the companies non-disclosure of information, information that may have well indeed, made the "clients" look elsewhere for the "service" they needed.

I think the best bet would be to look into this more, and to contact the law firms who have already begun to take action against them.....these people may be able to get all their money back and then some...

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Simple, just go into the profile section, there is a "close account" link at the bottom of the choices on the left.  They will close the account and mail you a check for the rest of the money left in the account, if any.

I've heard that closing your account online is not quite enough. You have to call up and beg to have your account closed, or something. :roll:

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Simple, just go into the profile section, there is a "close account" link at the bottom of the choices on the left.  They will close the account and mail you a check for the rest of the money left in the account, if any.

I've heard that closing your account online is not quite enough. You have to call up and beg to have your account closed, or something. :roll:

No, that is really all you need to do. They don't want to be called, just try and find their phone number on their web site. :)

Jason

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After reading this a thought came to mind....

They clearly advertise at the bottom of their site that they ARE indeed FDIC insured.....we know this is not the case...so therefore, they have actually fruadulently missrepresented themselves as to the security of the funds they handle and transfer throught their service.....

They have never said they were FDIC insured. They have $100,000 worth of insurance from Travelers Insurance against unauthorised transactions. It is set at that amount I'm sure to make people think of FDIC and not pay too much attention to that.

A real bank cannot do what PayPal did to me. It is against federal law for a bank to take money out of your bank account and give it to someone else without a court order.

Jason

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