Eugene

Western Digital Caviar RE2 WD4000YR

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Incorrect picture on the right. That depicts a single-platter drive. Unless they somehow managed to achieve 400 GB on 3 platters (and I didn't think they had one like that), it has to be their newer 4-disk platform, which is what the one on the left shows.

Then perhaps you will advise the WD webmaster of thier mistake.

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Hi,

I am new to this forum; But I would Like to correct everyone about the warranties on WD hard drives. I too have the WD4000YR for non-raid system and the first drive failed. Had hard time getting windows loaded, got multi-zone error under diagnostics & S.M.A.R.T.. Then finally the drive went out completely and was making clicking sounds when powered up and would not do anything after. So I am waiting on the replacement.

Anyways, back to my point. Every single one of you are wrong about the warranties including Eugene!!!

ALL WD HARD DRIVES ONLY HAVE A 3 YEAR WARRANTY; EXCEPT FOR THE RAPTOR LINE WHICH HAS THE 5 YEAR WARRANTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is a misprint on WD's Site. I also asked WD when I RMA'd my 4000YR. More proof is if you register the drive it only gives you 3 years, NOT 5. Therefor if you are correct about everything else The only difference is the TYLER Feature; which I find this very hard to believe; but anything is possible I guess.

Thanks

LucienTech

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[...]ALL WD HARD DRIVES ONLY HAVE A 3 YEAR WARRANTY; EXCEPT FOR THE RAPTOR LINE WHICH HAS THE 5 YEAR WARRANTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is a misprint on WD's Site. I also asked WD when I RMA'd my 4000YR. More proof is if you register the drive it only gives you 3 years, NOT 5. [...]

No.

The controlling legal language is on WDC's website (since July 18, 2005):

Western Digital Hard Drives (not purchased as part of a retail hard drive kit)

WD Protégé EIDE hard drives carry a Standard Warranty Period of one (1) year. WD Caviar, WD Caviar SE, and WD Caviar SE16 hard drives carry a Standard Warranty Period of three (3) years. WD Raptor, WD Caviar RE hard drives carry a Standard Warranty Period of five (5) years. Western Digital Mobile and External Hard Drives carry a Standard Warranty Period of 1 year.

Western Digital-Branded Retail Hard Drive Kits

All Western Digital-branded retail hard drive kits, with the exception of WD Raptor drives, carry a Standard Warranty period of one (1) year unless indicated otherwise on the package. Western Digital-branded WD Raptor retail hard drive kits carry a Standard Warranty Period of five (5) years.

If there is ever a dispute over warranty coverage, the terms of that document controls the outcome, regardless of whatever some RMA tech or warranty registration system reports. The terms cannot be changed retroactively (at least for consumers in the US); any changes will only affect drives sold after the effective date of the revisions.

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I think Elandril's response (post# 73) seems to make the most sense of all.

I have 5 Raid Edition drives in use in the office, 4 intended for raid sets ( 2 simple mirror sets), and one is an extra that I initially intended to use as a hot spare, but then changed my mind and installed it in my desktop as an extra drive, (standalone, no raid).

I am currently using the standalone RE drive for some heavy database testing. The drive is often in very heavy use for hours at a time. The drive is powered on 24/7, but is not used much outside of business hours, as it is only in use for testing right now.

So far, the single drive has worked just fine. I was initially concerned about the TLER, but I was skeptical that it would really be a problem. How often do good drives get stuck on a sector for more than seven seconds anyway, with or without TLER ?

I have not owned the drives long enough for my experience to be statistically significant, nor is my sample size very large, but my experience has been positive.

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Hi,

Given the Cavier RE2's very nice multi-user performance, how would you predict it would perform in a RAID configuration with a very good SATA RAID card such as the AMCC/3Ware 9550SX-8LP Raid Controller running Oracle RAC? Thanks for your help.

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There is a review of the Western Digital Raptor WD1500 that mentions a utility to ENABLE TLER (apparently the WD1500 ships with TLER disabled.

I wonder if the same utility could disable TLER on the WD4000YR?

Why would you want to ?

If TLER cannot complete repairs in 7 seconds, why would the OS be able to do repairs in more than that ?

I have often seen systems do the r-r-r-r ......... r-r-r-r ...... r-r-r-r grinding routine.

Sometimes for hours - hardly ever succesful.

I am happy to know TLER will not give me more grief than necessary when sectors fail.

After 7 seconds and numerous reads and correction attempts - if no success has been achieved the sector is marked as bad and life goes on.

I am eager to learn though - so any good answer to that is welcome !

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Is anybody using this drive in a non-raid environement (as a standalone drive) for longer than only some days >2 month experiencing any problems like a lot of system crashes or a fast reducing disk space?

Another question is: What do you mean by this:

Especialy since this drive utilizes a fully bit CRC!

Please answer to my question.

HeAtom

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Another question is: What do you mean by this:
Especialy since this drive utilizes a fully bit CRC!

Please answer to my question.

HeAtom

Since I cannot find the orginal quote, I'm making an assumption as to the context.

Ultra DMA drives implemented a CRC check, but only on the data packets, not the control/command instructions. SATA implements CRC on both data and commands.

HTH

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Most benchmarks appear to favour bigger drives. But SR only tests the biggest drive in a family.

Wouldn't it be interesting to test (at least once) also smaller drives to see how capacity affects performance?

Often the drive with one platter less than the biggest drive has the best capacity/price ratio. So is it safe to use the benchmarks for the bigger drive to decide to buy the smaller driver?

Have a look at http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200601/250_8.html for a comparison of drives within the same family.

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Apparently Western Digital's Marketing department and their technical support department are not on the same page.

As of Today THESE DRIVES ONLY HAVE A THREE YEAR WARRANTY!

I also purchased 2 WD4000YR and accourding to Western Digitals Warranty checker my Warranty expires on 11/15/2008!

Its not just me, someone posted the same problem on 12/03/2005, and I checked his serial number and his waranty coverage is still 11/9/2008.

The controlling legal language is irrelevant, if my drive dies on 11/16/2008 and WD's support system still says my warranty expires on 11/15/2008 then I am not getting a replacement.

Yes its false advertising & break of contract and all that, but since the US doesn't have any real consumer protection laws, my only recourse would be to spend thousands of dollars on a lawsuit.

[...]ALL WD HARD DRIVES ONLY HAVE A 3 YEAR WARRANTY; EXCEPT FOR THE RAPTOR LINE WHICH HAS THE 5 YEAR WARRANTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is a misprint on WD's Site. I also asked WD when I RMA'd my 4000YR. More proof is if you register the drive it only gives you 3 years, NOT 5. [...]

No.

The controlling legal language is on WDC's website (since July 18, 2005):

Western Digital Hard Drives (not purchased as part of a retail hard drive kit)

WD Protégé EIDE hard drives carry a Standard Warranty Period of one (1) year. WD Caviar, WD Caviar SE, and WD Caviar SE16 hard drives carry a Standard Warranty Period of three (3) years. WD Raptor, WD Caviar RE hard drives carry a Standard Warranty Period of five (5) years. Western Digital Mobile and External Hard Drives carry a Standard Warranty Period of 1 year.

Western Digital-Branded Retail Hard Drive Kits

All Western Digital-branded retail hard drive kits, with the exception of WD Raptor drives, carry a Standard Warranty period of one (1) year unless indicated otherwise on the package. Western Digital-branded WD Raptor retail hard drive kits carry a Standard Warranty Period of five (5) years.

If there is ever a dispute over warranty coverage, the terms of that document controls the outcome, regardless of whatever some RMA tech or warranty registration system reports. The terms cannot be changed retroactively (at least for consumers in the US); any changes will only affect drives sold after the effective date of the revisions.

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Western Digital's support serice still hasn't emailed me back, but their site shows that status of my query as "Escalated". I am feeling optomistic so I am interpeting this as the first tech realizing that their system is missreporting my waranty coverage and doesn't no why so he passed by problem up to a higher level.

I want to buy two more of these drives, but not until I am certain I won't get screwed on the warranty.

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Why would you want to disable the feature? If after 7 seconds the drive can't read/write the sector, it should report the bad sector to the controller, which will report it to your OS. In turn, your OS will mark the sector bad in the MFT/FAT, then it won't be used anymore.

This is how things should work on ALL drives. But instead, most drives try to hide their bad sectors by 'relocating' the reference to an available 'sparing sector'. Once the small part of the drive reserved for 'spare' sectors is full, then if it's a WD non-TLER drive it will hang the machine because it cannot relocate and will not report. If it's a non-WD drive it will probably report.

Key point: if drives reported all bad sectors from the beginning, you would have an idea how quickly corruption is occuring. Your software would be able to avoid sectors near bad ones, etc. By the time the defect table is full, your drive is in serious trouble. Only so many skeletons can be hidden in the closet.

The ugly truth is this: modern drives develop bad sectors EXTREMELY FAST, due to their high density. To cover this up, manufacturers have uniformly implemented 'defect management', aka. lying to the host controller about spreading bad sectors.

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Modern file systems are more than up to the task of managing bad sectors. The MFT/FAT can hold an arbitrary number of bad sector remaps, unlike the very limited physical remapping present in the drive hardware/platter design. Also, using a sparing table in hardware means the drive head is always seeking to the beginning (or end) of the platter surface whenever it hits a bad sector, in order to read/write a sector in the 'spare' section, interrupting smooth transfers and wearing down the actuator mechanism.

If the bad sectors are dealt with in software, there is no excessive seeking or interrupted transfer because that sector is simply never used.

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Indeed it is, at least so far that I've experienced. I've had a 320GB drive running for about 5 months now under medium/heavy 24/7 load. It is very cool running (20-21 Centigrade) due to being run in a ultracooled basement server.

3 bad sectors showed up in the event viewer (eventvwr.msc, check it once a week) about 4 weeks ago. This is perfectly normal for any drive. I really like the fact that this drive isn't hiding any bad sectors, but I am a bit surprised that its sparing table is already full. The filesystem will easily handle any more bad sectors.

Certainly I'm excited to find out how fast corruption really happens and since the drive can't lie (or hang) after the sparing table is full like others do, I will be informed of these events.

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...The Caviar SE16 WD4000KS is quite similar to the WD4000YR, and is the drive that WD recommends for consumers not looking to incorporate the unit into a multi-user array. Three differences- A) the WD4000YR enjoys an extended 24-hour factory burn-in period as opposed to the WD4000KS's lower 8-hour window. This significantly reduces the drive's infant mortality rate. B) TLER is disabled. C) WD backs the drive with a three- rather than five-year warranty. Those are the only differences.

The dichotomy in WD's SE16 line is rather intriguing. The 400 GB version basically descends from the Raptor's mechanics and electronics while the 250 GB unit is a member of the firm's more traditional Caviar line.

Eugene, here you are talking about the WD4000KS being the desktop version of the WD4000YR, yet elsewhere in this article people are referring to the WD4000KD. Was the 'KS' in this post a typo? I can see that WD has both a WD4000KD and a WD4000KS, and apparently a WD4000YS is also available from WD (soon.) Strictly talking desktop drives, wouldn't the KS series be preferable to the KD series?

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