Big Buck Hunter

R.I.P America

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Forgot to add.  Another thing I find interesting is this, the same people who are for American flag burning would have a stinker fit if I burned a rainbow (gay) flag or a minority rights flag, not that I would, but if they think they can burn American flags, why I can't I burn the flags I mentioned and be PC as well.

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Just because I oppose a flag burning amendment doesn't mean that I'm "for" burning the flag. There's a substantial difference.

I seriously doubt the people who burn the American flag would give one flying hoot if you burned a rainbow/minority flag; generally the people who would burn an American flag probably hate gays and/or minorities as well. And, for the record, almost nobody in the United States burns the flag. It's mostly burned in other countries where such an amendment has absolutely no jurisdiction.

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Wow you are very wrong, even the liberals here will probably agree that the ones burning the flags are the extreme liberal and in this country and would also support gays and minorities.

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Well, the proof is invariably in the pudding.

http://www.theodora.com/flags/new8/flag_burning_1.html

Take note that most of those didn't occur in the United States.

I'm liberal-minded, and I certainly don't hate America--but I think a flag burning amendment is fundamentally against everything that America stands for.

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Let's just say the gf hates it when I wear long shorts or bathing suits... B)

The scary thing is that for the last 10+ years I have done almost NOTHING for my legs at all, it's nearly all residual from the years I rode...

FS

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No way to really know exactly why most of the people who march in gay pride parades do. My point is that, rightly or wrongly, they are often seen by those on the outside as a celebration of the participants' sexuality. And if the intention is to promote toleance, I often think they have the opposite effect. One of the best ways to get someone to actively hate something is to rub their noses in it, so to speak. I probably would have no feeling one way or the other about homosexuals if not for the gay pride parades. Thanks to these parades and a few other things such as the failed attempt to teach grade school children about gay lifestyles I find them thoroughly annoying. To draw another parallel, affirmative action actually caused me to be actively prejudiced against blacks for a while. Before that I had no such feelings. The best way to promote tolerance is to just try to blend in as an equal, and NOT emphasize how you are different. A lot of the Republican's "family values" platform is an active backlash against years of being force fed the kinds of things I mentioned. Unfortunately, there's also the "us versus them" message which sooner or later will cause a backlash against them as well. Similar to what you said in another thread about religions being inherently intolerant by distinguishing their followers from others, and which I happen to agree with 100%.

On my build-it's mostly in my legs as well. I still have virtually no upper body despite years of digging in the garden and other chores which promote upper body strength. The muscles are there, it's so-called skinny muscle. I've heard that the bulging "muscles" of bodybuilders are mostly scar tissue caused by working out to the point that the muscles are severely stressed. I liken my own build to that of an insect. Even my legs aren't that massive, yet I used to do 10-15 reps on a leg press set a 750 pounds, and could actually do one or two at 1500. I'm sure there is no way I could match you at climbing mountains though. That has more to do with conditioning. Although I have 55,000 miles of cycling under my belt, I never rode over 50 miles in one shot, nor do I ever ride anywhere mountainous. I'm great at climbing shorter hills though, and still great at accelerating. I've clocked my 0 to 20 mph times around the area of 4.5 seconds when everything is on (0 to 30 takes ~11 seconds). Better gearing, maybe a better bike, would probably shave something off those times. Of course, these times are when I'm at 165 or so. Add another 15% when I'm at my heaviest.

Interesting on the shaved legs. I always thought it was for either aerodynamics and/or aesthetics (IMHO smooth legs just look better).

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I don't see what's all the fuss about.  It's only about burning a piece of cloth, isn't it?

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Well since your from Belgium I am not sure how well you now American history, but to American's the flag is not a simple piece of cloth it is our symbol of freedom, and we take it very seriously, much more so then many countries who think of their flags as a piece of cloth.

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I say that flag-burning or any other form of national symbol destruction should be punishable under law. :angry:

Seeing a neighbor burning a flag is almost a security threat. The complete and undeniable proof that this guy is not adapt to the country in question and should be expelled.

Ermächtigungsgesetz anyone? :ph34r:

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I say that flag-burning or any other form of national symbol destruction should be punishable under law. :angry:

Seeing a neighbor burning a flag is almost a security threat. The complete and undeniable proof that this guy is not adapt to the country in question and should be expelled.

Ermächtigungsgesetz anyone? :ph34r:

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Thank God, I was concerned I was the only person left in the world patriotic to my country, we are patriotic to different countries, but still patriots. :)

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jtr,

The buildup from body building IS your body repairing itself from overuse - but it's not scar tissue (that wouldn't help you life more weight the next time), it's more muscle tissue. When you work out hard, you actually create microscopic tears in the muscle tissue, which your body then repairs by generating NEW muscle tissue. Hence the expression - "no pain, no gain." It's true - you have to damange your muscles slightly to get them to grow stronger. Of course, when you get older (ahem), your body doesn't repair itself as fast, which is why it is VERY hard to maintain such a regimen after 40.

When you are young, it can happen FAST, even without drugs. When I started a campaign of weight lifting, I weighed under 165, had 39" suit size, a 15" neck, and could barely press the empty bar. Within 4-5 months of SERIOUS workouts (4-5 times a week, hours upon hours at a time), I had developed 43" shoulders, a 17" neck, and could easily bench 200+lbs - and weighed 195lbs. I ate a pound of pasta and a pound of steak every other night for fuel. I literally gave away or donated all the clothes I owned, including a complete set of 5 suits for work. I felt HUGE...

I don't have that anymore, too much time and effort to keep it up over 12+ years. But I can still press nearly 200lbs on a good day, my neck is 16 1/2", and my suits are size 42. Not huge, but a big step up from how wimpy I was.

FS

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Liberty-this, liberty-that... I'm not going to bother reading everything on this topic. I read already too many "liberty" words from the first couple of posts already.

http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/usa.htm

Sodomy laws were ruled unconstitutional just two years ago. Before that, many states had laws against for example oral and anal sex (in some cases banned even in heterosexual relationships). Is it not my and my beloved's right to decide what we do in our home? Should we always act like public opinion tells us? Or like Good Christians?

And how can a county with "In God we trust" in their bills even dare to say they have freedom of religion? Or does the sentence mean you have the liberty to choose which god you worship, as long as you worship somebody/something?

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Thank God, I was concerned I was the only person left in the world patriotic to my country, we are patriotic to different countries, but still patriots.  :)

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Heh, the problem is that most people don't think like us, xSTLx, they portray us as fascists*, relics of another era when nationalism was the trend.

How not true. If there is a value that unites all citizens and residents in a country above race, gender, political allegiance, faith, sexual orientation, etc. is the feeling of belonging to a certain nation. Even residents (who are not citizens of a given country) feel in a certain level that feeling of belonging in the host country.

If you don't like the country, go to another, don't burn its symbols. That's not free speech, it's assault on the institutions, the very fabric of a nation.

*by the way I'm not Italian, albeit living in Rome. I'm Greek.

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Sodomy laws were ruled unconstitutional just two years ago. Before that, many states had laws against for example oral and anal sex (in some cases banned even in heterosexual relationships). Is it not my and my beloved's right to decide what we do in our home? Should we always act like public opinion tells us? Or like Good Christians?

You had various options.

1) Forget the laws, do as you please (but effectively breaking them).

2) Change State.

3) Change Country.

Where's you problem? You're free to lobby to abolish the laws, but as long as they exist you have to comply or face the consequences. In certain [mostly eastern] countries think polygamy is OK. I personally think polygamy is not hurting anyone (as homosexuals don't) as long as the persons implicated don't have a problem. Should I start putting bombs in Athens' metro just because Greece doesn't allow it?

If I like poligamy so much I can always go to the Arab state that allows it... ;)

And how can a county with "In God we trust" in their bills even dare to say they have freedom of religion? Or does the sentence mean you have the liberty to choose which god you worship, as long as you worship somebody/something?

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You confound freedom of religion with traditions. Those words on your bills won't limit (IN ANY DARN WAY) your freedom to follow the faith of your choice.

More disturbing is article 6 (I think) of the Texan Constitution which says that to hold office you have to believe in a "Supreme Being", much as they demand in masonry, effectively barring all atheists or polytheists out. <_<

That should be changed, in my opinion.

In Greece our [ceremonial] President [of Democracy] takes an oath when taking office to believe in the "holy and undivided Trinity". Some dudes demanded it should be changed since there are religious minorities in Greece that are not Orthodox Christians. And they are right. But since that oath is ceremonial and traditional, and since Greece is >90% Orthodox, unless we someday elect a Muslim President (won't happen in the next 100 years...) I don't believe it poses a major procedural problem. If such a persons eventually gets elected, I believe they will take an ad hoc solution with a special oath.

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Sodomy laws were ruled unconstitutional just two years ago. Before that, many states had laws against for example oral and anal sex (in some cases banned even in heterosexual relationships). Is it not my and my beloved's right to decide what we do in our home? Should we always act like public opinion tells us? Or like Good Christians?

Some of those laws might have been based on sanitary concerns, especially with the latter. I personally find both practices disgusting in the extreme but we should let people do whatever floats their boat, so long as they don't materially harm others who have nothing to do with it. The fact that some people may not like these sexual practices isn't grounds to ban them. I can write a long list of even more disgusting sexual practices but I'm not because they would violate most of the rules here regarding posting.

Where's you problem? You're free to lobby to abolish the laws, but as long as they exist you have to comply or face the consequences. In certain [mostly eastern] countries think polygamy is OK. I personally think polygamy is not hurting anyone (as homosexuals don't) as long as the persons implicated don't have a problem. Should I start putting bombs in Athens' metro just because Greece doesn't allow it?

If I like poligamy so much I can always go to the Arab state that allows it... ;)

I also think polygamy laws should be abolished. I'm sure your "buddy" udaman would like that as well. After all, part of his master plan is to let most of the violent males kill off other, leaving him to impregnate the females. Should this plan come to fruition, he would have an awfully large "harem", for lack of a better word.

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"I also think polygamy laws should be abolished. I'm sure your "buddy" udaman would like that as well. After all, part of his master plan is to let most of the violent males kill off other, leaving him to impregnate the females. Should this plan come to fruition, he would have an awfully large "harem", for lack of a better word."

Yeah Udaman is terribly confused, he tries to tow the extreme feminist line, perhaps this helps him get lady friends? But at the same time seems afflicted with male chauvinism, many of you feminist cronies would not approve of scanty clad ladies and impregnating the masses.

pic145ux.jpg

Remember that one Udaman?

Perhaps we can e-mail it to http://www.feminist.com/

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"*by the way I'm not Italian, albeit living in Rome. I'm Greek."

Oh cool. :)

I myself am 1/8 Greek my great-grandfather was full blooded, immigrated from Greece. I still have a very Greek family name. I have family a lot of family there and my sister just returned from college in Athens.

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If you don't like the country, go to another, don't burn its symbols. That's not free speech, it's assault on the institutions, the very fabric of a nation.

Am I the only person here sane enough to see that what matters is not the cloth that forms the symbol for the principles of the country, but rather the fact that those principles are embodied in law? Or in this case, not ATTACKED by law?

This isn't brain surgery. It's not an intellectual dilemma. Flag-burning is protected speech...except that it makes some people angry, and thus they try to outlaw it -- a misguided attempt to preserve the principles of the country that results in damaging them.

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styx looks like a homophobe. You know what homophobe's are really afraid of, don't ya?

This notion that liberals would stand against the burning the rainbow flag is very silly. Liberal means free, numbnuts? Liberals support free expressions. It's those darn elitist conservative republicans that are working to take freedom, aka liberty, away.

Here styx, read the definition of Liberal: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=liberal&db=*

I still don't see how one blow job is worse than 10's of thousands of inoccent lives destroyed in an alledged war on oil, er..I mean terror.

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styx looks like a homophobe.  You know what homophobe's are really afraid of, don't ya? 

This notion that liberals would stand against the burning the rainbow flag is very silly.  Liberal means free, numbnuts?  Liberals support free expressions.  It's those darn elitist conservative republicans that are working to take freedom, aka liberty, away.

Here styx, read the definition of Liberal: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=liberal&db=*

I still don't see how one blow job is worse than 10's of thousands of inoccent lives destroyed in an alledged war on oil, er..I mean terror.

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:lol: HAHAHA :lol:

Wow "numb nuts" is sure a reasonable word.

Oh Picard I will say you are a perfect specimen, a perfect specimen of liberal brain washing, I guess you are still in or have just completed college? Yes? Oh or perhaps you are a union member or perhaps mommy and daddy are?

You howl extreme leftist propaganda statements that are bereft of any rationality or facts.

Put aside the fact that our views differ for a moment. Allow me to try to help you please, perhaps you could be enlightened by some here so you are not vacuous your entire life. When making a statement as radical as "I still don't see how one blow job is worse than 10's of thousands of innocent lives destroyed in an alleged war on oil, er..I mean terror." OR "It's those darn elitist conservative republicans that are working to take freedom, aka liberty, away." you should offer informed explanation and facts to constitute respect in the debate in which you participate.

You seem to know all the irrational extreme liberal key phrases, weather you fully understand them or not, I am pretty sure you don't. I am not sure of course, but the level of sagacity that you channel through your posts causes me to wonder if your mind should be trusted to determine where you stand. All this forces me to presume that you are towing a line from some source you would blindly follow over a bridge, perhaps a media source or a virtuoso liberal propagandist that you admire, perhaps a college professor? No matter what your views you need to be enlightened about what you preach and where you stand, but also informed about the 'other sides' sentiment. Basically if your mind never stops in a political discussion and thinks "wow the other side has a good point there" and then you question yourself about where you stand, then you are not thinking, I never trust any conservative or liberal who takes the entirety of their respective extremists without question because at that point they are not 'using brain.'

Edited by xSTLx

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xSTLx, you've ignored every time I've eviscerated your arguments. You comments on freedom and flag-burning have no supports left under them, but you continue to tread the water of your convictions. Who is brainwashed?

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xSTLx, you've ignored every time I've eviscerated your arguments.  You comments on freedom and flag-burning have no supports left under them, but you continue to tread the water of your convictions.  Who is brainwashed?

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Typical for his kind.

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Well stynx, I think everybody knows about the Patriot act and how it stomps all over the right to privacy. There have been many stories in the news about people being arrested for speaking their mind. Don't get caught wearing a t-shirt with a message on it being critical of Bush in a public place, you will go to jail. Didn't there used to be an ammendmant guarenteeing free speech. It seem so long ago, I can'd recall. Many have also heard about people being arrested without charge. Just the other day, a 16-Year-old girl here in Michigan was arrested while waiting in a public place for her mother to pick her up simply because she had no ID on her. Cops now can make there own rules, it seems, since there is no law requiring citizen's to carry ID(Don't confuse this with licenses for oprating equipment).

The Supreme court ruled just recently that local governments(as in city, but of course applies to levels of government) can take any land they want, and not just for public use, but even to then sell to private parties.

This is all general knowledge. If you would just read the news occasionally, you might become enlightened the world in which you live.

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You had various options.

1) Forget the laws, do as you please (but effectively breaking them).

2) Change State.

3) Change Country.

Where's you problem?

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Well, I don't live in U.S. so it's not my personal problem, but I'm sick and tired of hearing closed-minded Americans calling themselves liberal... or actually not all Americans think being liberal is good. They just think that their country is the very essence of "liberty", even without being "liberal".

If freedom is the "right to flee the state/country" or "the right to break the law and get punished for doing it", then I guess (for example) the Turks and Afghans seeking refuge in Europe are just using their "freedom". As well are muslim women stoned to death free (they have broken THEIR laws). :)

OK. You can change the state without hiding yourself on a cargo vessel or without risking being shot at the border (by either one of the sides) but still I don't consider moving out of the state or country the ultimate form of liberty.

U.S. might have "liberty" (that means, being liberal) when compared to Saudi Arabia or about any other muslim country for that matter, but when compared to countries in Scandinavia, they still seem to be living in the dark ages... Spying each other though the windows to see if the neighbor has sex with his wife in a position banned by the Catholic Church.

But now even people in U.S. have the right to probe each other's anuses. Not that it would change my life a bit since I do live in Europe. I like to have that liberty, although I'm pretty sure I'm not going to use it. Still having the liberty is a matter of principle and if I hadn't that liberty, I'd be upset.

More disturbing is article 6 (I think) of the Texan Constitution which says that to hold office you have to believe in a "Supreme Being", much as they demand in masonry, effectively barring all atheists or polytheists out. <_<

That should be changed, in my opinion.

Surely, that is disturbing, but finding a more disturbing fact does not nullify the less disturbing ones.

Edited by whiic

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whiic, since you know so much about the definition of "liberal" you should be well aware that the scandinavian states, while SOCIALLY liberal, are more economically socialist.

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whiic, since you know so much about the definition of "liberal" you should be well aware that the scandinavian states, while SOCIALLY liberal, are more economically socialist.

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Should? Who says I'm not aware? Who says I'm not concerned about it?

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I don't see what's all the fuss about.  It's only about burning a piece of cloth, isn't it?

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Well since your from Belgium I am not sure how well you now American history, but to American's the flag is not a simple piece of cloth it is our symbol of freedom, and we take it very seriously, much more so then many countries who think of their flags as a piece of cloth.

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I'd prefer it it you spoke for yourself--I take the flag seriously, but I take my personal freedoms a LOT more seriously that a mere symbol.

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whiic, since you know so much about the definition of "liberal" you should be well aware that the scandinavian states, while SOCIALLY liberal, are more economically socialist.

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Should? Who says I'm not aware? Who says I'm not concerned about it?

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If you're going to say that we in the US are in the "dark ages" in comparison to scandinavian countries when it comes to liberalism, expect that someone will point out that maybe that statement should be qualified. I specifically meant that you should know it -- not "should-but-don't (haha I'm smarter than you)," but rather "given your assertions about social liberalism and apparent education, you probably do know."

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Am I the only person here sane enough to see that what matters is not the cloth that forms the symbol for the principles of the country...

the bold is by me

Flag-burning is protected speech...

That's where we disagree. The very essence of it. :)

Flag-burning is not a simple 'disagreeing action', it's an insult on the institutions. A disrespect of all the laws that make the fabric of you nation, including the constitution. If you disagree with the constitution or the various laws, fight to change them, but DON'T try to take them down by force, as the flag-burning implies.

That's the meaning of a symbol afterall. And that's the meaning of the symbolism of flag-burning.

@MisterDuck, the symbol of the flag stands for your freedoms. It should be on the same level for you if you love your country. And what I'm saying is not pseudopatriotism, I truly believe that in this role for the national symbols.

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