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THE LAW IS THE LAW

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THE LAW IS THE LAW So if the US government determines that it is against the law for the words "under God" to be on our money, then, so be it.

And if that same government decides that the "Ten Commandments" are not to be used in or on a government installation, then, so be it.

And since they already have prohibited any prayer in the schools, on which they deem their authority, then so be it.

I say, "so be it," because I would like to be a law abiding US citizen.

I say, "so be it," because I would like to think that smarter people than I are in positions to make good decisions.

I would like to think that those people have the American Publics' best interests at heart.

BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE I'D LIKE?

Since we can't pray to God, can't Trust in God and cannot Post His Commandments in Government buildings,

I don't believe the Government and it's employees should participate in the Easter and Christmas celebrations which honor the God that our government is eliminating from many facets of American life.

I'd like my mail delivered on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving & Easter.

After all, it's just another day.

I'd like the US Supreme Court to be in session on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgivings & Easter as well as Sundays. After all, it's just another day.

I'd like the Senate and the House of Representatives to not have to worry about getting home for the "Christmas Break." After all it's just another day.

I'm thinking that a lot of my taxpayer dollars could be saved, if all government offices & services would work on Christmas, Good Friday & Easter.

It shouldn't cost any overtime since those would be just like any other day of the week to a government that is trying to be "politically correct".

In fact....

I think that our government should work on Sundays

(initially set aside for worshipping God...)

because, after all, our government says that it should be just another day....

What do you all think????

If this idea gets to enough people, maybe our elected officials will stop giving in to the minority opinions and begin, once again, to represent the 'majority' of ALL of the American people.

SO BE IT...........

Please Dear Lord,

Give us the help needed to keep you in our country!

'Amen' and 'Amen'

Touche!

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Thank you for that stinging misrepresentation of...whatever it was. I'm sure the source that you so faithfully quoted is very smart.

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THE LAW IS THE LAW So if the US government determines that it is against the law for the words "under God" to be on our money, then, so be it.

And if that same government decides that the "Ten Commandments" are not to be used in or on a government installation, then, so be it.

And since they already have prohibited any prayer in the schools, on which they deem their authority, then so be it.

That pesky Constitution is always getting in the way, isn't it?
I would like to think that those people have the American Publics' best interests at heart.
Officially favoring one religion when there are many practiced in this country is probably not keeping everyone's best interests at heart. Of course, merely removing religious symbols and religious statements from government buildings/currency isn't going to suddenly make decision-making unbiased and impartial, but it can't hurt.
Since we can't pray to God, can't Trust in God and cannot Post His Commandments in Government buildings,

That is a loaded statement. I hope you can see that.

It is a mystery to me why those that do not agree with the Constitution (specifically the first amendment) somehow think that its intention is to limit religious practice. On the contrary, it is to protect religious practice. One reason that the U.S. was founded was to escape religious persecution from countries that mixed government with religion. If the U.S. followed the same path, which would have largely defeated one of the primary purposes of its existance (freedom), it is likely that Puratanism would be the official religion. Boy, wouldn't that be great?

In any case, in response to the two claims: The author complains about removing a set of rules, three of which are purely religious (one of which insists on the exclusion of other religions), seven of which are obvious and which are not exclusive to nor invented by Christianity, and about removing a string of text from money which has nothing to do with the economy and which makes a rather presumptious statement to boot. By what logic does s/he conclude that this means "we can't pray to God" and "we can't Trust in God?"

I don't usually like to make sweeping statements, but anyone who believes that removing the sentence "In God we trust" from money means that they can no longer trust in their religion is an idiot.

BUT, YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE I'D LIKE?

I don't believe the Government and it's employees should participate in the Easter and Christmas celebrations which honor the God that our government is eliminating from many facets of American life.

This again misses the point of protecting religious freedom. Endorsing religious symbols and statements from a specific religion is a BadThing®. Take a look at AU (American's United) which is an organization dedicated to promoting religious tolerance and separation of church and state. It's headed by a Baptist minister, who I suspect has a far greater knowledge of the issues at hand than either of us (and certainly the author of this silly chainmail).

To spell it out: The point is that the Government should not interfere, or have anything to do with, religious practice. Religions should not interfere with, or have anything to do with, the government. It's just a bad idea.

Obviously, banning government employees from celebrating ostensibly religious holidays would have quite the opposite effect. I say "ostensibly religious" because Christmas is not really about celebrating Jesus's birthday anymore--it's about retailers making large emounts of money. You see far more Santa than Jesus. Easter is a holiday which is supposed to be about celebrating the supposed resurrection of the same guy, but the customs and traditions surrounding it are largely Pagan. At least, they were until it became about selling hollow chocolate bunnies. Sort of depressing how what might seem to be noble causes for celebration have been so commercialized.

I'd like my mail delivered on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving & Easter.

After all, it's just another day.

I'd like the US Supreme Court to be in session on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgivings & Easter as well as Sundays. After all, it's just another day.

I'd like the Senate and the House of Representatives to not have to worry about getting home for the "Christmas Break." After all it's just another day.

I'm thinking that a lot of my taxpayer dollars could be saved, if all government offices & services would work on Christmas, Good Friday & Easter.

It shouldn't cost any overtime since those would be just like any other day of the week to a government that is trying to be "politically correct".

So the author complains about two things that are non-invasive, and in conclusion,, demands several things that are.

Banning the celebration of religious holidays again defeats the purpose of separation of church and state. If anything, other religious holidays (like Hanukkah) should be made federal holidays to more equally respect different religious. However, it's a tradeoff. There are literally hundreds of religious holidays, and making them all official federal holidays would obviously be a bad idea.

Still, there have to be some, if for no other reason than because people tend to burn out without extended periods of time off. Because Christianity is all the rage in the United States, whereas Judaism and other religions are far from the majority, these federal holidays might as well coincide with Christian celebration.

Now, what would be a violation of the 1st amendment would be to say "You MUST celebrate the birth of Jesus on Christmas" or "You MUST celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on Easter." U.S. citizens typically take religious freedom for granted so much that they don't realize this is exactly the kind of bullshit that the 1st amendment prevents.

In fact....

I think that our government should work on Sundays

(initially set aside for worshipping God...)

No it isn't. You are thinking of Saturday

Sunday was for worshipping the sun (well it's more complicated than that, having origins in the Persian and Roman worship of Mithra(s) -- look up the etymology of the word "Sunday"). The Sabbath is actually Pagan in origin. It is a mystery to me why many religious people, particularly those not well educated in history, equate Pagan with "evil" or "devil worship" or something, when so many of their traditions are Pagan. I don't get it.

because, after all, our government says that it should be just another day....
What does this statement have to do with the two initial complaints by the author?
What do you all think?
I think the author of this document is trying to push views by using reasoning that could only be accepted by those completely devoid of critical thinking abilities, and without the slightest idea of what logical reasoning is.

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Sivar: have you read any of the Ulansey research about Mithras in the Roman tradition? There are some interesting reasons to suspect that the Roman Mithras may be only marginally related to the Persian Mithra.

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Just a word about majority rule:

Right now, this very SECOND as I write this, a nuclear armed Pakistan has an overwhelming MAJORITY of citizens that would like to see their government back the Muslim jihadists against the US. That is the majority will of their population - a democratically elected government would honor it, correct? So we should be looking for ways to aide these people in their search for democracy and help them overthrow their military despot of a ruler, yes?

In Iran two weeks ago, a majority of citizens voted out the West-leaning reformers, and put in power Muslim extremists - because of economic concerns. That was the will of the people - and we should be happy about it, yes?

Now, tell me again about how the majority should always be "right"...or is it the majority is only right when they are American? Then how can we be keen on exporting democracy across the world?

The simple truth is - THE MAJORITY IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. Hell, the majority eats fast food with abandon, keeps themselves in terrible shape, and (statistically speaking) has never had higher education. Just the people I want making all the critical decisions with no minority invovlement...

Future Shock

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THE LAW IS THE LAW So if the US government determines that it is against the law for the words "under God" to be on our money, then, so be it.

Well, since the words 'Under God' aren't on our money anyway... And the words 'In God We Trust' were only added in 1963, there is no 'founding precedent' for them anyway.

And since they already have prohibited any prayer in the schools, on which they deem their authority, then so be it.

No, they haven't. They have prohibited government-sponsored prayer. Anyone can pray anytime they want in school, the schools just can't institutionalize prayer. (Even then, this only applies to publicly funded schools.)

I would like to think that those people have the American Publics' best interests at heart.

Which many do. I, for one, would like a government that fights for the freedoms of ALL of its citizens, not just one religious group's. (Look at Afghanistan when the Taliban controlled it. If you were a fundamentalist Muslim, you were great. If you weren't, life sucked.)

I don't believe the Government and it's employees should participate in the Easter and Christmas celebrations which honor the God that our government is eliminating from many facets of American life.

I agree, our government should not be involved in religious celebrations. However, hampering its employees actions would be infringing on their right to freedom of religious expression.

I'd like my mail delivered on Christmas, Good Friday, Thanksgiving & Easter.

Well, since Thanksgiving is a non-religious holiday with no religious undertones, that one doesn't make sense. It's a holiday celebrating the friendship between early settlers and native American Indians. Yes, those settlers were of a specific religious denomination, but their religion doesn't play into the celebration of the holiday. And since the USPS doesn't deliver mail on Sundays anyway, Easter doesn't matter. But I agree, the mail should be delivered on Christmas.

After all, it's just another day.

I agree. Although it is a very important day to a large majority of Americans. I feel that religious freedom includes the freedom to worship on your religion's holiest days, so workers should be allowed to take off, say, 8 days a year of their choice for religious worship. (That covers all of the major, and even minor, Christian holidays, Jewish holidays, Muslim holidays, etc.) In addition to accommodating other religious tenents. (For example, I used to work with someone who was a very devout Seventh Day Adventist, who felt it against his religion to work on the Sabbath, which was defined as sunset Friday to Sunset Saturday. I had no problem with him going home 'early' on Fridays during the Winter months.)

I'm thinking that a lot of my taxpayer dollars could be saved, if all government offices & services would work on Christmas, Good Friday & Easter.

Personally, I value religious freedom. I think that the 'government' should be run 251 days a year. (52 weeks times 5 work days, minus the 9 federal non-religiously-based holidays.) With the allowances listed above.

I think that our government should work on Sundays

(initially set aside for worshipping God...)

See the other reply for how you are wrong here. But I think that two in-a-row days off are a good thing for employee morale, and tradition has Saturday and Sunday as the 'weekend', so why change it?

If this idea gets to enough people, maybe our elected officials will stop giving in to the minority opinions and begin, once again, to represent the 'majority' of ALL of the American people.

Except one of the founding principles of the U.S. is to PROTECT the minority. Otherwise, we just have 'mob rule' where those whose opinions are not in the majority are suppressed and vilified. (See Iran, Saudi Arabia, some parts of India, etc.)

SO BE IT...........

Please Dear Lord,

Give us the help needed to keep you in our country!

'Amen' and 'Amen'

Absolutely. Give us the help needed to keep you in our country, and protecting the rights of those who choose not to worship You, or to worship You differently than I do. Jesus himself promoted tolerance. It is the free will of man to decide wether to worship Him or not, I don't want my government interfering with my free choice. Because some day, the 'majority' may not agree with me.

The constitution does not outlaw religion. It bars the 'establishment' of religion. This is an old use of the word 'establishment' meaning government-sponsorship. Such as in England when it was illegal to be anything other than Anglican. The founding fathers did not want the U.S. to EVER bar minority religious freedom, so they wrote in that it would not be allowed for the government to prefer one religion to another. I fully support 'faith-based initiatives' as long as they are faith neutral. If government money is going to help feed and house the homeless, I have no problem with some of that money going to Christian-based charities, as long as there is no bar or difficulty in money going to non-Christian charities. If in Mobile, Alabama, only Christian charities apply for the money, so be it. If in Portland, Oregon, one Christian charity, and one non-religious charity both apply for a grant to help the homeless, either split it between them, or decide on the merits other than religion.

DUT, I would very much welcome a complete dialogue on this subject. Please reply with your reasoning and debate, and I will be happy to seriously consider your viewpoints, and reply point-by-point. However, if you post just the single topic-starter, with no backup, and no followup, it makes you look like a muckraker who does not actually have the convictions to fight for his cause.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - attributed to Voltaire

P.S. According to Thomas Jefferson, we have a DUTY to disobey and fight unjust laws, and not blindly obey them.

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Regarding holidays and weekends, I feel we should have more days off, not fewer. For starters I think it would be great for employee morale to change to 3 13 hour days days instead of 5 8 hour days. Sure, you're basically just working and sleeping for those three days, but you get four-day weekends all the time. By staggering the days employees have off, businesses can still be open whatever number of days they were before. When I used to work full time I found two days a week off just wasn't enough. I'd finish work on Friday dead tired from the workweek. By the time I started feeling normal again, it was time to start the grind all over again. BTW, having time OTHER than weekends off is a good thing. Stores are usually packed on weekends. If I could only have two days a week off they would definitely NOT be Saturday and Sunday.

As for holidays, an extended holiday around Christmas and another around Easter, maybe a week off, wouldn't be a bad thing. Kids are off from school anyway so it would give families a chance to spend time together, and it would be great for employee morale. And you seriously need a few holidays during the summer. For those without vacations, you basically go from July 4 to Labor Day without a holiday. I did it twice and hated it like hell. In fact, I've worked once for nearly two years with just weekends and eight holidays off. No personal days, no vacation days, and sometimes work on Saturday also. It sucks, but that's what the low end of the labor force deals with all the time. Many jobs just don't have personal/vacation days. I was off for the holidays, but didn't get paid for it. The summer has the longest stretch in the calender without an extra day off, and it's all the worse because working in the summer heat is hard to begin with. Assuming we didn't do the smart thing and adopt the longer work day/shorter work week I suggested earlier, an extra day off every other week in the summer would be a good thing.

Compared to many other first world countries, we get far fewer holiday and vacation days. This is as important to employee morale as higher pay. If we need to use religion as an excuse to have more days off, so be it.

BTW, I always thought Christmas was a celebration of Santa Claus' birthday. ;)

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THE LAW IS THE LAW

Wow! In all caps and in bold! You even have that thing where you use multiple punctuation, like this!!!!

Sorry bro, the source you nabbbed this from is a 1st class tard. The only thing missing is the nazi reference. Aside from that from that, it's a pretty good troll.

Frank

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Another post from DUT, that narrow, insular, USA nationalistic mind perspective. Oh well, doesn't surprise me at all when foreigners complain about the average USA citizens 'imperialistic mindset'. Mostly they are correct in how they view the average USA citizen's self-centered view point. Not that others from other nations do not also have the same tendencies, but at least they do look around at the rest of the world to gain a bigger perspective from time to time. Which is why I'll not waste another post on this thread; far too many much more significant issues in the world that will effect all of us, be it here in the US or anywhere in the rest of the world... which is why I started the "Will China own the 21st century' thread.

Oh my, the top minds on SR reply to the bait ;)... hook, line, & sinker???

ROFL, such sarcastic witty replies.

Talk of opening a can of worms...

The most insidious of tyrannies is secularist anarchy gone rampant.

209918[/snapback]

Hehe, I'm not used to such short posts from tracker, not sure what he was getting at here.

Was he implying the Taliban or the rise of the religious-right conservatives courted by Rove & Bush in the last election :lol:

Thank you for that stinging misrepresentation of...whatever it was. I'm sure the source that you so faithfully quoted is very smart.

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Ouch BA, you need to be a little more abrupt with your biting sarcasm ;-)

I don't usually like to make sweeping statements, but anyone who believes that removing the sentence "In God we trust" from money means that they can no longer trust in their religion is an idiot.

(no no sivar, they know that; but they are bastards for insisting on keeping their beloved motto's on their money, because it falls under their reality distortion of being an American, the sole/spirit of the country in their {slanted religious} minds)

Because Christianity is all the rage in the United States, whereas Judaism and other religions are far from the majority, these federal holidays might as well coincide with Christian celebration.

What do you all think?
I think the author of this document is trying to push views by using reasoning that could only be accepted by those completely devoid of critical thinking abilities, and without the slightest idea of what logical reasoning is.

209974[/snapback]

Geez, Sivar; but that's my main complaint of almost all of the 15min attention span posts I see on SR. "completely devoid of critical thinking abilities, and without the slightest idea of what logical reasoning is." Only problem I have is that I feel your statement above about 'Because, therefore, might as well logic to Christian holidays, is exactly as you said following. Rather false logic if you ask me, pretty much said like some Christian or member of a dominant religion would say. "might as well"; yikes, not very sound or compelling logic/argument in my book (and hell, my book is better than your book, Bible, Quaran, Talmud; etc. etc ;-) )

Just a word about majority rule:

Right now, this very SECOND as I write this, a nuclear armed Pakistan has an overwhelming MAJORITY of citizens that would like to see their government back the Muslim jihadists against the US. That is the majority will of their population - a democratically elected government would honor it, correct? So we should be looking for ways to aide these people in their search for democracy and help them overthrow their military despot of a ruler, yes?

Oh sorry, I though you were talking about Sadaam Hussein here, my bad ;-)

In Iran two weeks ago, a majority of citizens voted out the West-leaning reformers, and put in power Muslim extremists - because of economic concerns. That was the will of the people - and we should be happy about it, yes?

Now, tell me again about how the majority should always be "right"...or is it the majority is only right when they are American? Then how can we be keen on exporting democracy across the world?

Depends on the kind of democracy (see: jtr's short lived thread on why he thinks democracy is doomed to failure). There are a awful lot of wealthy Iranian Jews (one owns several blocks worth of real estate in the heart of the business district of Beverly Hills) in Los Angeles that would disagree with FS's, 'news headlines' story formating; glossing over the the political situation in Iran right now. Those Iranians in So. Cal. which watch a weekly 1hr program on the local independent TV station have a different view the recent elections; as do many dissenting voices in Iran, depends on what you mean by 'democracy'. At any rate, FS's statement on Iran is IMHO, a gross simplification, and quite misleading, if not altogether inaccurate.

The simple truth is - THE MAJORITY IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT. Hell, the majority eats fast food with abandon, keeps themselves in terrible shape, and (statistically speaking) has never had higher education. Just the people I want making all the critical decisions with no minority invovlement...

Future Shock

209984[/snapback]

See jtr, I told you, FS couldn't be that guy on the left, the one on the right is the one who "looks" like he's in better shape and works out at the gym...hehe, stereotypes. Well I don't want FS or Dem's of higher ed, but don't 'use brain'; making critical decisions, because they don't do enough research and therefore becomes blatantly biased before becoming truly informed of the facts, instead of being just ignorant. It's that 15min attention span thingy again. ;-)

THE LAW IS THE LAW So if the US government determines that it is against the law for the words "under God" to be on our money, then, so be it.

Well, since the words 'Under God' aren't on our money anyway... And the words 'In God We Trust' were only added in 1963, there is no 'founding precedent' for them anyway.

That is a bit misleading in itself to mention 1963 for paper currency, because US coinage has used the motto for a century before that:

Fact Sheets: Currency & Coins History of 'In God We Trust'

But I agree, the mail should be delivered on Christmas.

Actually, for a little more money you can get mail delivered on Christmas by the USPS... umm, but it's going to cost you-Express Mail

P.S. According to Thomas Jefferson, we have a DUTY to disobey and fight unjust laws, and not blindly obey them.

Nice theoretical statement, not much good in practical reality though. Who decides what is an unjust law? Draft dodgers who disagree with the just cause for the Vietnam war? The list goes on, it's never ending.

209988[/snapback]

I'm against prayer in public schools period, not even after school religious clubs. Separation of church and state, entirely. If public school children want to have a prayer meeting, do it at their own community religious center, or use some off campus site. Religious relief organizations, as good as the may do; should not be given any public grant money. Religious charities should obtain money from their followers. I mean the Catholic Church is Friggin rich, they build hundreds of millions of dollars worth of fancy new churches and religious related and owned buildings/organizations (TV stations, etc). If they want to do charity work feeding the poor, or homeless; may the lord praise them for their goodness, but it they should not get government money for their religious causes--- however noble they maybe, period.

And to the one line posters/linkers like DUT and xSTLx; my favorite political satire site:

United States Department of Faith (DOF)

yo yo yo gameboy's check it out Kids! Accept Jesus Christ as Your Lord and Savior and Get a Free PlayStation 2! (I'll bet RJ orders the 'What would Jesus Do' thong for the next iPod chick with the 'great tits'.

""If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother...he cannot be my disciple." - The Lord Jesus Christ (Luke 14:26)

Pretty cool, huh? So, if you hate your parents, you are already halfway to becoming a True Christianâ„¢! Congratulations! "

ATTENTION PATRIOTIC KIDS! Help Barney Teach Miss Beazley How to Keep the White House Safe from Trespassing Liberal Vermin!

And f_vo and xSTLx can learn about the snake eating barbaric violent prone muslims from Star Trek Klingons:Can The World of Star Trek Help Americans Understand Muslims and their Culture of Terror?

Hmm, will I be getting some more PM's with titles like 'you sick f***'... and do I care, lol: this whole thread is boringly insignificant relative to other world issues, like the G8 meeting... or Lance Armstrong kicking the Frenchies butts again, for the 7th time? PRESIDENT'S MESSAGE TO THE PEOPLE OF FRANCE EXPRESSING GRACIOUS BEMUSEMENT OVER THEIR SIXTH HUMILIATING THRASHING BY AN AMERICAN ONE-NUT WONDER

Or better yet

http://www.tomcruiseisnuts.com/home.php

Compared to many other first world countries, we get far fewer holiday and vacation days. This is as important to employee morale as higher pay. If we need to use religion as an excuse to have more days off, so be it.

BTW, I always thought Christmas was a celebration of Santa Claus' birthday. ;)

209995[/snapback]

Holy Crap jtr, why would Santa want to do all that raindeer sledding with an estimated (growing the ever expanding Catholic 3B+ population) 100 gazillion tons of gifts, going 3 times the speed of light... on his birthday! That's just sick ;-)

Well now jtr, did we watch either the 1st or 2n segment of the PBS prog. "World in the Balance"? Or read through the transcripts? Emerging (as opposed to established) 1st world countries and Japan do things differently. Did you see how many days/hours a week the Japanese TV newswoman worked in her 2 income family? Do you understand that the traditional EU (again 'established' old-guard mentality) countries are having a multitude of problems with the changing world economies that most of you are sticking you heads in the sand about future realities. Traditional 1 month August European vacations are costing these countries more money that they can afford now, and they are not competitive because of these 'perks' of the 'old-guard'. Sure, 3-day work weeks are a nice luxury.

In fact the LAPD union tried to get this for the police down from 4 day work weeks now. But the economic realities of modern life are such that the vast majority of LAPD officers moonlight at other jobs on their 'off-days'. Santa Monica PD is one of the worst, which instead of the supposed higher cost of hiring more officers pays a large number of their force for 80-100hr workweeks and $100k+ overtime salaries. One such dyke of a nut case, blond female, truck driver mentality officer (complained about by rape victims, of her abusive treatment of them after their trauma on national TV, NBC's 'Dateline') went to prison for several years after shooting with a 22cal gun, the married black SMPD motorcycle officer she was having an affair with . Oh I have more than a passing knowledge of this idiot that got paid more than 100k+ per yr for 100hr workweeks. She violated the law with respect to me on a certain 'civil law case', under the color of authority; but you rarely get to see these low-life moron's prosecuted for egregious conduct.

In a changing world economy that is becoming more and more competitive, don't expect more holidays and longer paid vacations. Hey jtr, the Brazilian 'social entrepreneur' in a segment of last weeks PBS program I linked to in Sivar's recent thread, said he no longer has time to play guitar much with his friends and his work to keep farmers on their farm land, and not move to the slums of the cities; means he works 18hr days, and not just 3 days a week, to provide low cost solar electricity to rural countryside inhabitants. Become a self-centered hard working successful capitalist entrepreneur and retire a rich man, then you don't have to work at all! Or you might get lucky and have me hook you up with an intelligent Chinese hotel magnate's rich daughter (low probability) ;)

ROFL, I just noticed BBH's post, is everyone being suckered into this lame religous-right troll thread???

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udaman, I tried to fix your post so that it would render, but it refuses and the IPB renderer sort of sucks. (PHPbb will at least try to render some of it, giving you an idea of what pisses it off, rather than parsing through and "Oh, a tag's missing!" (then giving you the finger)

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udaman, I tried to fix your post so that it would render, but it refuses and the IPB renderer sort of sucks. (PHPbb will at least try to render some of it, giving you an idea of what pisses it off, rather than parsing through and  "Oh, a tag's missing!" (then giving you the finger)

210022[/snapback]

I've noticed that that is one of Invision's biggest problems: it gets REALLY confused when you add a lot of quote tags. I've gone through a longer post and every tag was completely correct and closed, and yet it still wouldn't properly render the post...just didn't bother with any quote tags.

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Just one little correction. Our govenment needs to represent all the people, not just the majority. When one group rules over another, that is not democracy, that is communism, in the former Soviet Union sense. I hate to think that is where we are headed, though there is a lot of ugly out there. Given that the topic is not serious, have a grain of salt.

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Do you guys know anything about tradition?

Although I agree with your frustration about not having a system that represents everyone (faithful or less), having in "God We Trust" on your banknotes doesn't change business as usual. Atheism has become so trendy you will eventually forget your founding fathers' religious or otherwise important days such as Thanksgiving or Christmas.

I'm sort of an atheist myself, but I do like the presence of certain things cause they make my life fuller. I call these things "customs" and there's nothing to change there. :)

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