xSTLx

Nvidia 7800 GTX.

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This is crazy, your all arguing about nothing, they will I'm sure produce a AGP version of one of the 7 series cards why all the insane ranting?

How am I making you have legacy crap in your machine, you want a pci-e card go for it, but some will want agp cards for a few years.

Quit taking what I say and putting your own twist on it. I said the AMD 64 I had was a POS Compaq, it sucked, and my current machine is better, I did not say this is true for all AMD 64 machines, read please.

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Development, marketing, small scale production, packaging, non-competitive price point, distribution, narrow target market...

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Development = Done already. They have the bridge chip, punch out some circuit boards.

Marketing = Not required, the people who want it will find it, and they are many.

Small Scale Production = Sorry, more people still have AGP then have gone to pci-e. Many of them want to kick the dead horse to, so they will look at the AGP 7800.

Packaging = What? Geesh you need a box and a sticker, ever seen BFG oem cards?

Narrow Target Market = See "Small Scale Production"

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Manufacturing is not a video game. From where are you getting your "facts"? I hope you're just a troll and don't really believe what you are proclaiming. There very well may be a viable market for an AGP 7800, but your rude, arrogant and immature reply does not give me confidence that you have considered any of my points.

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Threevok,

I am starting to wonder if your only reason for being a participant on this forum is to cause argument and cause problems. I consistently see you lash out violently over the smallest thing, the only reason you could want to do this is to cause an argument. Calling people immature constantly for what seems to be no reason makes me think you must be a child. I will not consider any of your points at all in the future if you don't stop acting like a all knowing big baby with a god complex.

Thanks. :)

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This is crazy, your all arguing about nothing, they will I'm sure produce a AGP version of one of the 7 series cards why all the insane ranting?

How am I making you have legacy crap in your machine, you want a pci-e card go for it, but some will want agp cards for a few years.

Quit taking what I say and putting your own twist on it.  I said the AMD 64 I had was a POS Compaq, it sucked, and my current machine is better, I did not say this is true for all AMD 64 machines, read please.

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No I read your discussion and was a part of it. You stated almost to the very end that a A64 was slower while many of us pleaded you to understand that it was compaqs fault not the A64 (still don't even understand how they could screw it up but i will give you the benifit of doubt.) Either way read the the review i was talking about when you can often get 4x-5x the performance by changing procs with the video cards you have on hand i can't comprehend the idea of investing 600 on a even newer vid card when you can't even supply enough info to your current ones. Hell your a a game generation from not even having a CPU that can handle the games at all. I suggest you give F.E.A.R a try. Most of the Performance problems are Graphics intensive but it will bring a slow proc to its knee. Take that into the equation and i don't understand how can realistically expect your 3 year old proc to last another 3 years.

Edited by Topweasel

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My processor is 4 years old. Of course I don't expect it to last 3 more years, but for now it does fine. This is becoming an attack on me when its supposed to be a discussion on when they will have 7 series agp cards, take me out of the equation, what about people with AMD 64/FX that have agp slots still and may want these cards.

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I will not consider any of your points at all in the future if you don't stop acting like a all knowing big baby with a god complex.

So... you'll stop considering your own words then? :D

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I will not consider any of your points at all in the future if you don't stop acting like a all knowing big baby with a god complex.

So... you'll stop considering your own words then? :D

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Oh sorry HMTK, diden't mean to hurt your feelings by leaving you out, but you know I stopped considering you a long time ago. :lol:

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My processor is 4 years old.  Of course I don't expect it to last 3 more years, but for now it does fine.  This is becoming an attack on me when its supposed to be a discussion on when they will have 7 series agp cards, take me out of the equation, what about people with AMD 64/FX that have agp slots still and may want these cards.

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Then they need to upgrade their system. Nvidia wants their SLI system every where and pobably wants to Lower production of the HSI chips. It doesn't make sense for Nvidia to cater their $600 video card to people who can upgrade their mobo for $150 and be ready for SLI. Anyone using 754 screwed as well, single channel memory will starve the vid card. Socket A the CPU's wouldn't come even close.

Right now the 7800GTX doesn't perform better then the 6800 ultra on anything less then 1280*1024 because even on a FX57 its still CPU starved. How would CPU's that can't perform even half as well as that be good idea.

While I don't think they will be cutting out AGP anytime soon I wouldn't be surprised if they havea card performing better then ATI that they will have a PCIe only on the high end. When you are creating a super proformance product does it make sense to cater to legecy hardware users. Can you imagine a Ferrari Enzo with a rear seat for a baby, or a wheelchair holding spot.

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This comes as something of a surprise to us as we know that ATI will release an AGP version of R520 once it's ready. Bear in mind that ATI sill has to release PCIe version but once it has R520 PCIe it won't be a rocket science to bridge this chip to AGP with its Rialto bridge to Babylon chip.

Well I'm sure they will start losing customers to ATI then, like me.

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This comes as something of a surprise to us as we know that ATI will release an AGP version of R520 once it's ready.

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As far as I know AGP versions of previous-generation product from ATI were also significantly delayed.

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Getting a 7800GTX for a Athlon XP1800+ is pointless. You will be CPU limited by anything more powerful than a 6600GT videocard. Meaning a $600 7800GTX on your system will perform the same as a $150 6600GT.

In order to realize the speed of the 7800GTX, you need to upgrade your CPU, buy a SLI PCI-Express motherboard while you are at it. Or just upgrade the whole computer.

Edited by Ruined

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BTW, another option is to split up your $600, buy a nForce4 SLI motherboard, 6800GT PCI-Express, and a Athlon 64 3200+

XFX 6800GT PCI-E $299

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16814150091

Athlon64 3200+ Socket 939 Venice 90nm $189

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16819103535

ASUS A8N-SLI Socket 939 mobo $140

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16813131524

This setup would obliterate your current setup with a 7800GTX if that were possible.

Edited by Ruined

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Just let it be. I did not have time to read all the threads and just read this thread today, this is getting hot and heavy.

People can spend their own money in whatever way they see fit, if you think someone is wasting their money, you can tell him/her that. It is up to that individual to listen to your or merrily go on his/her way.

I used to play planetside on mostly Markov, some Emerald, Planetside was one buggy piece of software and pretty much require 1GB of RAM to play. I think it's more cost effective to stop upgrading video card alone and upgrade your entire system so you have room for more upgrades in the future.

STL, just think, with a PCI-E system, you can be a liberator's bombardier, max zoom, high visibility and won't lag your system out because you have a decent CPU+graphics card combination to handle it. With a faster system, you can charge into a big battle without fatal lag (unless your network cannot handle it).

If you don't upgrade your system often and want to stretch your system's useful life out, I recommend you consider dual opteron or dual Xeon system seriously. If you are a gamer, unless it's IO intensive game, bottle necks are graphics card, CPU, size and speed of your memory. Of course, if you play online, network speed can also become an issue.

By going wth dual processor system, given the fact both AMD and Intel are releasing dual core CPU, you can stretch out the useful life of your system even longer. With PCI-E in SLI configuration, you can also stretch your video cards out longer.

I haven't looked at Intel carefully but if you do take that path, be warned, AMD is going to support DDR2 and they already taped out, more or less. CPU supporting DDR2 will not be compatible with socket 940, they're migrating to F & M respectively for DDR2 support. However, this is not going to happen until 2006.

Releasing AGP version of 7800 will cost some money. How much is debatable though. nVidia will incur additional development cost. You can't just copy the PCB layout and slap it onto an AGP slot, expecting it to work. You have to run simulations to verify it is going to work, if not, re-route your traces then send your design to the manufacture to see if any new bugs occur (shouldn't be in theory but in reality, things go wrong all the time, wrong library loaded by manufacture, wrong model sent, etc. etc.). This cost will not be as big as developing a new chip + PCB from scratch thogh.

Shelf space is also an issue. Don't foget bestbuy, compusa, circuit city, fry's, etc. have a limited shelf space. If the retailers will only give you 1 spot on their shelf, are you going to make PCI-E or AGP version of your card?

It's advantageous for nVidia to push PCI-E because they are selling their nForce4 chipset at a fortune, making a lot of profit. ATI is suffering from that as a result. nVidia can afford to lower the margin on their graphics card, as long as they are making it back on selling their nForc4 chipset.

Why do boards with VIA's KT800 chipset cost much less? Because VIA charges a lot less than nVidia for their chipset :)

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I'm a planetside man myself, Markov Vanu 2 year term of service.

I was really more interested then anything else, they jumped all over me about my cpu like usual. :blink:

I have a Asus 6800 Ultra but it causes problems in planetside, about every 15 minutes or so the screen goes insane, looks like a tie die t shirt, to fix it the game has to be restarted, very annoying, so I'm not even sure a 7800 GTX would work for me anyway, but for playing around, as you said I can spend money on whatever I want. :)

BTW I get better 3dmark 05 numbers with the 6800 ultra and X800 then with a 6600 GT or my 5900 Ultra, so my cpu must still have some ballz left. :)

With my 5900 Ultra I get 100+ FPS on 1600X1200 in planetside, so I would not be upgrading the video card for planetside in particular.

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So here we are we still have no 7800 agp video cards, today I decided to look at the new ATI X1800 thinking they would still release it in an agp version as they had promised. The R520 chip seems to fall short of my expectations and I am sure many others, I was ready to jump ship as a long time Nvidia guy for the R520 based X1800 in agp format because I wanted a current generation agp video card for my aging agp system.

atix10001st1qx.th.jpg

Well the had promised but once again they make a stupid move and decide not to release the card in agp version just like Nvidia did even though it is very simple to do with a conversion chip, I would have though video cards makers that buy chips from Nvidia and ATI would release agp versions to make all the windfall money in that market but they are yet to do so something tells me Nvidia and ATI put a lock on agp and are not allowing these makers to produce these in demand cards. So the question comes into play who is paying off who, the rage on the internet from a simple Google search reveals that people are upset and want 7800 and X1800 in agp format there are even polls with ten of thousands of signatures demanding these cards for very capable computers that still have agp, don’t forget many very quick current amd fx and 64 systems still utilize agp instead of pcie, it is very sad when a person with an almost new system has to upgrade simply to purchase a video card, it must flow like this > motherboard makers pay off Nvidia to not produce agp 7800 card > Nvidia pays off ATI to not make X1800 agp card as to not lose market share > motherboard companies kick back to Nvidia and ATI for increase in motherboard sales, I am sure I must be close to right, if not payouts there are at least agreements and a secret chumage between Nvidia and ATI to screw us all.

Link:

http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/8839

ATI has been destroyed by Nvidia lately, sorry ATI guys I know you will jump me over this but just face it, it is true, Nvidia 6800 cards are better then anything from ATI in the same generation, ATI also released the X800 cards to late to gain momentum or a predominate market share, the 6800 ultra being the top release from Nvidia was compared to the 9800 XT the top release from ATI for a long time the 6800 of course was many times better a card, before ATI released the X800 and that does not even compare to the power of a 6800 ultra, then ATI failed to compete with SLI in a timely manner, their crossfire once again being released to late to gain a formidable market share, ATI has good products I do admit, however they dominate more in the office and professional market then in the gaming community so I wonder if they will go down the road of Matrox soon and concentrate on their strong points in the professional market because their last two generations of cards have been destroyed by Nvidia in performance and they cannot seem to keep up with Nvidia in a timely manner in technology advancement in the gaming market. ATI had a rare chance to pull ahead in my mind, something they have not done since the 9800 series raped the unsuperior fx series cards from Nvidia, they could have continued to release agp cards but instead they follow the mistake Nvidia made, making them look more and more like catch up puppies following around Nvidia like their master.

So if you have not yet seen ATI's current bomb it is called the X1000 series. I will share a little about them. The top of the line R520 chip is found in the X1800 card. ATI has still not learned they are falling behind even more by not releasing the X1800 in a crossfire compatible card right away instead they will wait making the X850 the current best card for a crossfire setup, see they do have rocks in their heads the crossfire is their own design. The X1800 has come far after the 7800 series from Nvidia and is not as good of a card and not ready for crossfire, once again ATI plays puppy and blows money on a bomb. The X1800 only has 16 pixel pipelines like the aged 6800 ultra while the 7800 gtx has 24.

Here we see a compare of the X1800 to the 7800 gt and gtx in doom 3.

doom38jp.th.png

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=172&type=expert&pid=9

Now there are the X1600 middle road card and the X1300 budget card in the series however as we look into these cards we reveal even worse horror. These cards get eaten by aged now much cheaper offerings from Nvidia like the 6800 and 6600 cards.

doom3mid7mw.th.png

doom3bud8nj.th.png

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=172&type=expert&pid=10

Here are some technical specifications for the cards.

http://www.a1-electronics.net/Graphics_Car...eries_Oct.shtml

They say the X1600 and the X1300 may become available in agp format, however why would I buy one of those if they are not as fast as aged much cheaper 6800's and 6600's that would make little sense, unless you are a hardcore ATI fan which I am sure some of those will buy these bombs. ATI or Nvidia make a high end current generation card in agp please, whoever does will get my $500 to $600 dollars whatever the cost, man these companies are becoming strange not wanting to make money, perhaps someone should tell some of those obviously not gamer stockholders eh.

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Yep, third-party manufacturers will make whatever they think there is demand for. AFAIK, both ATI and Nvidia claimed from the beginning that they would not release their latest boards in AGP format unless there was considerable demand for it; a "wait-and-see" approach. Unfortunately they have taken so long to reach market that most of the early adopters (read: those that buy shiny new expensive things) have already moved on to PCI-E.

It's unfortunate that MSI's idea of PCI-E on one side of the card and AGP on the other: http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/06/01/MS...iversal_x800xl/ didn't take off. Would have let us upgrade things piecemeal.

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There IS hope for us AGP dependents!  Check this out.  :D 

X1800 available in AGP from Diamond

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Thank you for posting this, I will take one, serves Nvidia right, I now go to ATI after buying almost every new top of the line Nvidia card since TNT, see Nvidia you screwed yourselves. :P

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On the other hand...

There is a current flood of radeon x850pro vivo cards on ebay selling for under $200. The vivo cards mod to x850xt with great success. (Im sure there are 6800gt refurbs at that price too) There isnt anything out there now that an x850xt wont play, and probably wont be for a while.

AMD is changing thier socket next year anyways. I would not upgrade from a agp system now

Edited by wimcle

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There IS hope for us AGP dependents!  Check this out.  :D 

X1800 available in AGP from Diamond

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Thank you for posting this, I will take one, serves Nvidia right, I now go to ATI after buying almost every new top of the line Nvidia card since TNT, see Nvidia you screwed yourselves. :P

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Plus you get the 90nM process instead of 110nM ....at least I think that's right!

On top of that is the fact that you get VIVO on the AGP version but not on the PCI-E!

At least one company is being kind to 'legacy' system owners. :)

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Plus you get the 90nM process instead of 110nM ....at least I think that's right! 

On top of that is the fact that you get VIVO on the AGP version but not on the PCI-E! 

At least one company is being kind to 'legacy' system owners.  :)

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Wrong on both. If Diamond actually sells this thing, it's a native PCI-E chip bridged to AGP. And VIVO is a step down from the PCI-E's AVIVO.

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And VIVO is a step down from the PCI-E's AVIVO.

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VIVO=Video In Video Out - it refers to the I/O available on the card. Avivo is an ATI name for a set of multimedia features, like H.264 decode assist, which aren't going to disappear just because it's AGP and not PCIe.

Just because it's a VIVO model doesn't mean it's isn't an Avivo model as well.

As always, you're welcome to point me to proof that I'm wrong.

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VIVO=Video In Video Out - it refers to the I/O available on the card. Avivo is an ATI name for a set of multimedia features, like H.264 decode assist, which aren't going to disappear just because it's AGP and not PCIe.

Just because it's a VIVO model doesn't mean it's isn't an Avivo model as well.

As always, you're welcome to point me to proof that I'm wrong.

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My point was that Diamond is specifically disclaiming full AVIVO functionality by specifying VIVO. AVIVO's advanced connectivity features, which the AGP version apparently lacks, have nothing to do with the GPU.

Certain ATI graphics cards with Avivo technology can dissolve connectivity barriers between PCs and consumer electronic devices. Outputs for virtually any TV via analog or digital interface, such as s-video, and DVI , are complemented by inputs for cable, broadcast TV and other video sources. And advanced dual-link DVI interfaces support the largest high-resolution LCD displays.

And by the way, nobody is going to sell this thing, assuming Diamond even bothers to bring it to market. A blurb about AGP inside a "X550PCIE256" part number from the reconstituted arm of a cable modem company(Best Data) isn't really confidence-inspiring.

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This comes as something of a surprise to us as we know that ATI will release an AGP version of R520 once it's ready. Bear in mind that ATI sill has to release PCIe version but once it has R520 PCIe it won't be a rocket science to bridge this chip to AGP with its Rialto bridge to Babylon chip.

Well I'm sure they will start losing customers to ATI then, like me.

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By all accounts there will not be an ATI x1800x agp card. altho it is difficult to prove a negative. The last species of agp from ati is the

x850xt which I have and they are now about as common as hens teeth. There is great demand for them so resale prices are high but they do ocassionally become available.

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