B4RSK

Dear President Bush

Recommended Posts

Came across this the other day. It looked a lot like another urban legend, so I looked up all the references on bible.com. Every one is accurate.

Dear President Bush:

Thank you for doing so much for educating people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As you said in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman. I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is just something so Python-esque about that - I had to read it with the proper accent to myself!

There are a host of literal "words of god" that are so inapplicable, metaphorical, and downright senseless that it is good to keep a list handy. I am thinking about getting this tatooed on my left arm...nice post.

Future Shock

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks FS, glad you enjoyed it.

I'm looking forward to replies from some of the religious nuts... ;)

I'm not anti-religion. Nor am I overly religious. It's something I struggle with a bit. I can't accept the religious doctrine preached by so many, but I also have great trouble accepting that there is nothing beyond life here on earth.

I'm not afraid of death... I look forward to finding out what comes next. :)

Ian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is just something so Python-esque about that - I had to read it with the proper accent to myself!

There are a host of literal "words of god" that are so inapplicable, metaphorical, and downright senseless that it is good to keep a list handy.  I am thinking about getting this tatooed on my left arm...nice post.

Future Shock

193137[/snapback]

Before replying I feel I must quote from the book of Deuteronomy :

"Deuteronomy 23

1 "He whose testicles are crushed or whose male member is cut off shall not enter the assembly of the LORD.

2 "No bastard shall enter the assembly of the LORD; even to the tenth generation none of his descendants shall enter the assembly of the LORD."

Please bear these rules in mind if you are considering replying to this.

I have to disagree about your claim that these are "metaphorical" they are clearly literal. However you have to recognise that the bible is a collection of books written on Christianity. The different authors lived in different lands at different times. For example Mathew wrote 80 years after the death of Christ. No he wasn't Mathew the disciple.

Here is some more advice from my favourite book:

"12 "You shall have a place outside the camp and you shall go out to it; 13 and you shall have a stick with your weapons; and when you sit down outside, you shall dig a hole with it, and turn back and cover up your excrement."

How to poo in a godly way!

Of course in reading the letter it becomes clear that the author has not read his bible well else he would know that you cannot sell your kin: From Deuteronomy 24 "7 If a man is found stealing one of his brethren, the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you."

...and finally I'd like to share one other gem from Deuteronomy 25 that may encourage you to read it:

"11 "When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, 12 then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall have no pity."

I haven't shared tips on the right way to start a fight and other classics in order to leave you with no option but to read this oh so good book.

Love,

Fairy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Of course in reading the letter it becomes clear that the author has not read his bible well else he would know that you cannot sell your kin: From Deuteronomy 24 "7 If a man is found stealing one of his brethren, the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you."

193150[/snapback]

This is a huge problem with the bible -- it contradicts itself all the time.

As you said, the bible is a collection of writings by different people in different times. Even more than that though is that this collection of writings was put together much later -- centuries after the various books were written. Religious leaders of the time picked and chose what they wanted to include in the bible. And what they wanted left out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The King James 6th and 1st Edition is actually an astonishingly good translation into English from Hebrew and Greek texts as a literal translation. The earlier RC bible is ehm somewhat more questionable. However these days many people prefer "Dynamic Equivalence" as a method of translation, in other words translating the meaning rather than the words. For these people the new translations are better.

To be honest anyone with a brain can read and understand the more literal translation. However I would agree with the idea that the bible is selective. Basically there are more than one hundred books that a commitee in Rome looked at and decided nope ditch all of those we don't like and that was most of the books. Including the Gospel of Mary (hey a female perspective would be dangerous wouldn't it!)

Oh and while we are on the subject did you know that Mary Magdalene wasn't a prostitute, may have been a preist and is never described as a prostitute in the bible. See we have to suppress the free thinking women in the bible!

In short I think that viewing the bible as "the literal word of God" is idiotic and dangerous! However surveys suggest the majority of Americans do!

Love,

Fairy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In short I think that viewing the bible as "the literal word of God" is idiotic and dangerous!  However surveys suggest the majority of Americans do!

193157[/snapback]

I wonder what percentage have actually read more than a few verses of the bible though... I'd say it would have to be very low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where are all the bible thumpers?? Nothing to say?

Perhaps you've never actually read the book that represents what you say you stand for... Shocked to find out that you should be PUT TO DEATH because you cut your hair?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm disappointed... I guess no one wants to defend the word of God quoted directly from the bible! I thought at least one of the big-time religion fans here on SR would say something!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One fairly easy defense, as far as Christianity goes: Jesus changes all that. The Chosen are no longer just the Jews, but are all those saved through faith. Thus, the Covenant with god kept by the Jews based on The Law is obsolete: Jesus frees us from The Law.

Most of the Jews I know (unlike fundamentalist Christians) say that the Bible was not meant to be taken literally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Of course in reading the letter it becomes clear that the author has not read his bible well else he would know that you cannot sell your kin: From Deuteronomy 24 "7 If a man is found stealing one of his brethren, the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you."

193150[/snapback]

This is a huge problem with the bible -- it contradicts itself all the time.

As you said, the bible is a collection of writings by different people in different times. Even more than that though is that this collection of writings was put together much later -- centuries after the various books were written. Religious leaders of the time picked and chose what they wanted to include in the bible. And what they wanted left out.

193151[/snapback]

BTW, I don't see the contradiction here. It says that you can't sell into slavery a family member that you have STOLEN. You don't steal your own daughters, I don't think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a lover of Christianity I'm disgusted at whoever wrote that letter (not

you B4RSK).

Where are all the bible thumpers?? Nothing to say?

High paying (hahaha yeah right) projects kept me away. Where are the rest of

the bible defenders? We should be standing up to his in mass.

First, giving Bush a letter about G-d is like giving Satan a letter about

the Easter bunny.

No human has ever heard the words of G-d an lived. So those aren't the

'literal words of G-d'. What's more is those texts were translated and their

full connotation is long past lost.

Don't forget that monks and scholars often translated the bible rather

freely.

That's why there's more than one of them. If 1 guy messes up there are 10

other copies to make sure as much correct info as possible is preserved.

See we have to suppress the free thinking women in the bible!

The Bible says to treat everything/everyone fairly and with respect. Women

fit into that category. The Bible also takes into account the society

zeigist and thus women have some freedom that men don't because that's the

way society was run.

The King James 6th and 1st Edition is actually an

astonishingly good translation into English from Hebrew and Greek texts as a

literal translation.

I doubt it. KJB made tons of mistakes in Genesis alone that I can point out.

G-d isn't mention in Genesis and the 'dark water' is a translation error.

The Torah has given humans a new light and Jews have blessed us with its

teachings. If anyone ever bothered to learn the Bible you'd know what I

mean.

Now let's tear a new one into that disgraceful letter:

1) 25:44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, [shall

be] of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen

and bondmaids.

Slaves in the sense that G-d puts it is not the slaves as the south sees it.

As you can clearly see G-d says one can only have slaves of 'heathens'

meaning those who don't follow the L-rd. That would pretty much be Satanists

and Atheists.

2) People don't sell their daughters out for no reason. It's more like a

servant job. That's a way for servants to function and learn how to work.

Read 21:2 and the rest of the chapter to see what I mean and the entire

chapter for clarification.

3) Leviticus Chapter 15 only goes up to 15:33. Chapter 19 verse 24 says:

But in the fourth year all the fruit thereof shall be holy to praise the

LORD withal.

4) How do you know it stinks? Have you ever burnt a sacrifice at the temple?

Don't lie because the temple has been destroyed for some time now.

5) Moses is telling people to not overwork. What's the problem? We have people today who are workaholics and then complain about how much their lives sucs.

6) Are there degrees of abomination? Of course there are. It's like asking who's worse Michael Jackson or Lorenna Bobbit.

7) Since the altar has been sacked you don't have to worry about it. Plus 'sight' has more than a physical meaning.

8) It says no to cut corners of your head or mar corners of your beard. Where does it mention death?

Lev 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

9) Some one hates Leviticus by the looks of it. I don't see anything about skin.

Lev 11:8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

10) Wait a take things out of context is more ways than one. To top it off Bush 'studied'? Since when?

NOTE: I used KJV. If you really want I'll be more than happy to have it translated from Hebrew given some time.

This is a huge problem with the bible -- it contradicts itself all the time.

That's your interpretation.

When you take bits and pieces and put something together you can make a lot of things contradict.

Thus, the Covenant with god kept by the Jews based on The Law is obsolete: Jesus frees us from The Law.

You're wrong on this one:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. (Matthew 5:17)

Most of the Jews I know (unlike fundamentalist Christians) say that the Bible was not meant to be taken literally.

Most secular Jews would agree. Most religious Jews would not. Torah Jews and ultra-ultradox Jews would disagree with you totally.

Religion seems like riddles to most of you because English is pretty ineffecient language. Ancient Hebrew was far more effecient. Read up on Swedenbourg (sp?). Many references are lost in the Bible, many modern translations don't make sense, and other things won't mean jack to you unless you take into account the time of things.

If you ever read mystical Jewish/Christian/Muslim texts you'd see literal translations make no sense in English.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most of the Jews I know (unlike fundamentalist Christians) say that the Bible was not meant to be taken literally.

Most secular Jews would agree. Most religious Jews would not. Torah Jews and ultra-ultradox Jews would disagree with you totally.

While I'm unsure of the value of tit-for-tat in this instance, I disagree. Most religious Jews would agree with me...but you're certainly right that orthodox/"ultra-orthodox" Jews would not...they are fundamentalists, who by definition do not believe in non-literal meanings of their religious writings. They are also in the rather small minority, unlike fundamentalist Christians (and possibly Muslims, though I haven't seen any figures for this and would be guessing), who are a fairly large minority.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most religious Jews would agree with me...

If they're not religious then does their it matter? Unless they pratice the faith in full form what authority to they have to comment on their faith.

Ultra-Ultra orthodox/ultra-orthdox are religious Jews. In what way are they fanatics? They follow their faith as laid out. To me that's dedicated not fundamentalist.

I see that as equating a person who goes to church on Easter and Christmas and speaking for Christinity or Osama speaking for Islam.

Edited by qawsedrftgzxcvb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most religious Jews would agree with me...

If they're not religious then does their it matter? Unless they pratice the faith in full form what authority to they have to comment on their faith.

Ultra-Ultra orthodox/ultra-orthdox are religious Jews. In what way are they fanatics? They follow their faith as laid out. To me that's dedicated not fundamentalist.

I see that as equating a person who goes to church on Easter and Christmas and speaking for Christinity or Osama speaking for Islam.

193530[/snapback]

Yup, I was right. No value in it.

FWIW, you fail to understand the meaning of "fundamentalist."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most religious Jews would agree with me...

If they're not religious then does their it matter? Unless they pratice the faith in full form what authority to they have to comment on their faith.

Ultra-Ultra orthodox/ultra-orthdox are religious Jews. In what way are they fanatics? They follow their faith as laid out. To me that's dedicated not fundamentalist.

I see that as equating a person who goes to church on Easter and Christmas and speaking for Christinity or Osama speaking for Islam.

193530[/snapback]

Yup, I was right. No value in it.

FWIW, you fail to understand the meaning of "fundamentalist."

193533[/snapback]

Lesson in English: not all words have the same connotation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As a lover of Christianity I'm disgusted at whoever wrote that letter (not

you B4RSK).

Why? It serves a dual purpose nicely - it pokes fun at a hypocrite, and shows people that taking the bible literally is an exercise in futility. Futile because first of all the bible doesn't apply literally to modern world - it was written by men, and those men couldn't imagine a round world, let alone all the social and moral changes that have happened in over 2000 years, and secondly because the bible is selfcontradictory in a huge number of places. This is of course a result of a book that's a mish-mash of a huge number of texts by different individuals spanning decades, who lived in different places - how on earth could it EVER be coherent?

That's why there's more than one of them. If 1 guy messes up there are 10 other copies to make sure as much correct info as possible is preserved.

You know what happens with a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy? Unless every version of the bible since the beginning (this is assuming we actually believe there ever WAS one bible, which i personally doubt very much) is copied directly from the source, you can be fairly certain that whatever is left after 2000 years has very little resemblance to the original - in meaning perhaps, but definitely not in literal content.

The Bible says to treat everything/everyone fairly and with respect. Women fit into that category. The Bible also takes into account the society zeigist and thus women have some freedom that men don't because that's the way society was run.

Frankly, the bible is horribly chauvanistic. Hardly surprising, since it was written at a time when women were akin to a fine hound - something to treat well and cherish, but not exactly where you'd go for advice on matters of importance.

Slaves in the sense that G-d puts it is not the slaves as the south sees it. As you can clearly see G-d says one can only have slaves of 'heathens' meaning those who don't follow the L-rd. That would pretty much be Satanists and Atheists.

Oh, then it's alright. Just the heathen and satanist Canadians...

4) How do you know it stinks? Have you ever burnt a sacrifice at the temple?

Is it important that it be a temple? I've burnt dinner a couple times, and it smelled pretty bad. Will the temple make it smell better?

Don't lie because the temple has been destroyed for some time now.

There's only one? Isn't it referring to any place of worship?

5) Moses is telling people to not overwork. What's the problem? We have people today who are workaholics and then complain about how much their lives sucs.

Actually he's saying we should spend an entire day doing nothing because the lord felt like having sunday off. I wonder how they got by back then not milking cows and feeding livestock for a whole day. Or is it just some work you shouldn't do?

8) It says no to cut corners of your head or mar corners of your beard. Where does it mention death?

Lev 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

Well, if that's the literal translation, i could probably come up with a lot of different meanings that had nothing to do with haircuts. Does anything around the quote reinforce that we are talking about haircuts?

When i think of the massive amount of slang and subtle meanings in our language, it really scares me to think that some people (not necessarily you) are taking ANYTHING in a 2000 year old text literally!!

9) Some one hates Leviticus by the looks of it. I don't see anything about skin.

Lev 11:8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Is there actually some meaning to this? I mean pork is good eating, pigs are cheap to raise and easy to care for. So what if they are dirty, that's why we skin and cook them. (Well, some people eat the skin, but it's not mandatory). I wonder where this bias came from, or if someone just didn't like pigs.

That's your interpretation.

When you take bits and pieces and put something together you can make a lot of things contradict.

Yeah, i think that was his point - the bible is thrown together from so many sources that trying to live up to every point of it is impossible. So how do you decide which parts to follow and which to ignore? And if you just pick and chose, why even follow anything?

L.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The texts in the Bible are lost in many cases thus we're unable to decipher the full meanings. If you've ever read Kabbalist, Gnostic, or Sufi texts you'll find their literal translations make even less sense.

You're correct the Bible was written buy people but the origional messages were from G-d.

Oh, then it's alright. Just the heathen and satanist Canadians...

:/

Canadians aren't satanists.... are they? *shrug*

Is it important that it be a temple? I've burnt dinner a couple times, and it smelled pretty bad. Will the temple make it smell better?

If Moses said so then probably.

There's only one? Isn't it referring to any place of worship?

There is only 1 temple and it's been destroyed for sometime now.

I wonder where this bias came from, or if someone just didn't like pigs.

It's a really long story and I don't have much time. The jist was some animals didn't do as G-d asked and that's the result.

Yeah, i think that was his point - the bible is thrown together from so many sources that trying to live up to every point of it is impossible. So how do you decide which parts to follow and which to ignore? And if you just pick and chose, why even follow anything?

If not follow anything else just follow the 10 commandments. They seem easy and harmless to everyone.

Our understanding of religion is limited but the teachings have usually guided us in the right path.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now