qawsedrftgzxcvb

Is there a G-d again....

Recommended Posts

From 'The Eve Of Messiah' we've been debating G-d. Some have said no. Others have said yes.

The Russian report I had was from scientists and other news agencies in Russia confirm it. However by no means is the preservation limited to Buddhism. Christian priests have been unearthed and been completely preserved also.

Eons have passed and people have believed in the divine. These are the people that build the builiding blocks for our civilization. Can they be so wrong? These are the people who built the Great Pyramid and we can't fathom as to how they built them, can they be so wrong? These are the people who brought us geometry on the basis of faith, can they be so wrong? If they are wrong then why are we using their ideas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From 'The Eve Of Messiah' we've been debating G-d. Some have said no. Others have said yes.

The Russian report I had was from scientists and other news agencies in Russia confirm it. However by no means is the preservation limited to Buddhism. Christian priests have been unearthed and been completely preserved also.

Eons have passed and people have believed in the divine. These are the people that build the builiding blocks for our civilization. Can they be so wrong? These are the people who built the Great Pyramid and we can't fathom as to how they built them, can they be so wrong? These are the people who brought us geometry on the basis of faith, can they be so wrong? If they are wrong then why are we using their ideas?

193033[/snapback]

I don't believe one word of it. I'd like to see some links from those "scientists". If those guys were so holy, why did God allow them to die in the first place? Even if it were true (which it's not) what sort of favor is it to keep someone's body from rotting after death?

If they are perfectly preserved forever, why have we not found a single ancient body of a holy man perfectly preserved? That would certainly make news... But it hasn't, because the whole thing is a hoax, like most of your "holy" religious crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been busy of late so I've only partially followed that other thread. Suffice it to say I'm on the same side as FS and SC on this matter. I've yet to find any convincing evidence that a deity or deities exist, and even less reason to worship one. Seriously, if a deity is so egotistical as to deny a place in paradise to those who refuse to worship them, then maybe they're not a deity at all, and not worthy of worship. I tend to think any arbitrarily advanced being will have a smaller ego, not a larger one. And they would no more care what happens to an individual human than we would care what happens to an individual ant. Think about that for a moment. We're probably so insignificant in the scheme of things that none of the advanced beings in this universe care whether or not we even continue to exist. In fact, on many levels it would be better for the planet if man became extinct.

And now for an alternate view. Ever consider that perhaps at some time in the past we have had visitations from extraterrestial races who for whatever reason saw something of themselves in humans, and felt we were worth preserving? Maybe they saw our self-destructive tendencies, and needed to find a way to keep us from destroying ourselves before we could evolve into something better. They felt, rightly or wrongly, that creating a common set of beliefs would further this end. Thus they passed certain tenets of religion to some of mankind, and used their technology to create "miracles" so the rest would believe. Was it a perfect system? Hardly-in the long run religion has led to some of the bloodiest wars in history. Perhaps without it, however, we never would have evolved to the point where we are now. For whatever reason these ETs felt that they couldn't just reveal themselves as they are to primitive man without it severely interfering with our natural state of evolution. Religion then was a compromise form of interference, yet one nonetheless.

I'll also close this by saying that at this point in our evolution we're ready to completely let go of religion. It has served it's purpose. Reason, technology, and science are what will lead us into the so-called "promised land", not praying to false gods. I'll be eternally grateful to the ETs for saving us from ourselves, but the time has come to let go of the fairy tale they created just as children eventually learn there isn't a Santa Claus. I'll grant that a significant portion of the population may not be ready for the truth, but perpetuating a lie at this point is doing more hard than good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't believe one word of it. I'd like to see some links from those "scientists".

Take a trip over there and ask.

If those guys were so holy, why did God allow them to die in the first place?

Buddah: Life is suffering. (Poor translation but a translation.)

Even if it were true (which it's not) what sort of favor is it to keep someone's body from rotting after death?

Perhaps we'll advance in science in a few 100 years to find out.

If they are perfectly preserved forever, why have we not found a single ancient body of a holy man perfectly preserved?

They have. Older Buddhists have been found in a similar fashion. Quite a few are dressed in cermonial clothing and put in temples.

Seriously, if a deity is so egotistical as to deny a place in paradise to those who refuse to worship them, then maybe they're not a deity at all, and not worthy of worship.

That's the Catholic belief. It's not shared among everyone.

We're probably so insignificant in the scheme of things that none of the advanced beings in this universe care whether or not we even continue to exist.

You're on the right track. G-d doesn't need us. G-d's sacrcrifed a lot to help us. G-d is just like a person. Jews have talked with G-d for a king when G-d said Jews didn't need a king. Eventually G-d said fine. G-d told Muslims to fast for 6 months and Mohammed said it's too hard. G-d said fine just make it 1 month.

In fact, on many levels it would be better for the planet if man became extinct.

Native Americas on one of the worst possible outcomes:

You'll learn that you don't destory G-d's world and get away with it. G-d will wipe out humans and the Earth with rest.

Was it a perfect system? Hardly-in the long run religion has led to some of the bloodiest wars in history.

Violence is condemed in religion. Religion allows for violence in only the rarest of cases. Even Buddhism can call for violence when needed.

...let go of the fairy tale they created just as children eventually learn there isn't a Santa Claus.

Sidenote: Santa Claus was evil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3236118.stm

Prahlad Jani, a holy man, or fakir, who is over 70 years old, has just spent 10 days under constant observation in Sterling Hospital, in the western Indian city of Ahmedabad.

During that time, he did not consume anything and "neither did he pass urine or stool", according to the hospital's deputy superintendent, Dr Dinesh Desai.

Yet he is in fine mental and physical fettle, say doctors.

Most people can live without food for several weeks, with the body drawing on its fat and protein stores. But the average human can survive for only three to four days without water.

Followers of Indian holy men and ascetics have often ascribed extraordinary powers to them, but such powers are seldom subject to scientific inspection.

Another religious concept in action. Union with a higher being.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
These are the people who built the Great Pyramid and we can't fathom as to how they built them
The Pyramids were built (i.e., commissioned) by aliens. Yeah, aliens on vacation! Edited by Ron_Jeremy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To ask, "Is there a god," you must first define what it is you are asking about.

- If God is a "higher being", as in a conscious entity which most rationally, equally informed people would agree is more evolved than humanity, than probably yes. It's a big universe, and it is perhaps rather arrogant to assume that it is all for us, and that we are the only conscious beings in it.

- If using a typical religious definition, check the following boxes:

I believe God:

[ ] Is omnipotent

[ ] Is omnipresent

[ ] Is omniscient

[ ] Independently created the universe 6,000ish years ago

[ ] Looks like a man and lives on the planet Kolob

[ ] Wrote the Christian bible, Lavey bible, Qur'an, or another best-selling book.

Without this information, everyone could well be talking about completely different things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sivar has a good point. Not everyone has the same mental model of G-d. That's why I stated before the Abrahamic belief system is very defecient in understanding what other cultures view as 'gods'.

We say the Babylonians has 'gods' however Babylonian texts don't call them 'gods' at all. They were the 'shiny people'.

Wrote the Christian bible, Lavey bible, Qur'an, or another best-selling book.

G-d didn't write any of those books. Human wrote them. G-d didn't even narriate them it was angels who sent the messages. I wonder how much of the meanings were lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's your opinion not mine. :P

194640[/snapback]

True Q BUT:

although i am not a fan of god (any god), i have sympathy for YOU.

For me you are a great guy, alway looking on the bright side of life.

And no i am not joking at all.

As for you Honold, i could not care less what you say...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last time I spoke about politics or religion at my local pub, I got into a loud argument with my good friend, and it created an unpleasant environment for the other patrons.

Now this isn't a pub, but it is the "Bar and Grill", and I think the same could be said of having discussions about politics and religion here. It will annoy some of the other patrons. If you don't want to be the guy that other patrons are casting dirty looks, don't have such conversations. Most people have their opinions on these matters, and there is little that will sway them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think religious debates are a great deal of fun, and can be very enlightening.

However, the religious discussions here primarily end up resembling nerf-jousting rather than intellectual conversation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Religious debates are supposed to make everyone happy and show we're all loving. That's not working.

Here is my final message to this thread:

Kumba ya my Lord kumba ya

Kumba ya my Lord kumba ya

Kumba ya my Lord kumba ya

Oh lord kumba ya

Go tell it on the mountains that you believe

It's the word of the only commander-in-chief

He's got the whole world in his hands, just say yo

He gotcha by ya balls, swing it low sweet Chariot

I was a sinner, a bad girl, lord pardon me

I was deaf, dumb and blind, but now I can't see

I'm the �ko-Christ with my guitar

Give it to me Jesus - aha aha

Kumba, kumba, kumba ya (4x)

Kumba ya my Lord kumba ya (3x)

Oh lord, kumba ya

Can't you feel, when the faints are marchin' in

Nobody knows the happy fellowing trouble I've seen

You're the Savior, you're the real big player

And I'm standing here alone in the need of a prayer

Judgment is coming high

I heard a sucker rumbling in the sky

Kumba, kumba, kumba ya (4x)

Kumba ya my Lord kumba ya (3x)

Oh lord, kumba ya

Kumba, kumba, kumba ya (4x)

Kumba ya my Lord kumba ya (3x)

Oh lord, kumba ya

Kumba ya my Lord kumba ya

Can't you see the judgment is coming

Kumba ya my Lord kumba ya

You all keep the rhythm of the Lord

Kumba ya my Lord kumba ya

Yeah of course life can be summer

Kumba ya my Lord kumba ya

We are the raiders of the lost chord

Kumba ya my Lord kumba ya (3x)

Oh lord, kumba ya

Kumba, kumba, kumba ya (4x)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The argument whether there is a G-D or not is a stupid one.

If you're an atheist, you acknowledge that there is a G-D but you reject him.

When we create something, or see a finished product, it is beyond our comprehension to assume that this product came out of nowhere. Thus it is beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend that the world can exist without something owning it, and a higher being observing and running it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The argument whether there is a G-D or not is a stupid one.

If you're an atheist, you acknowledge that there is a G-D but you reject him.

When we create something, or see a finished product, it is beyond our comprehension to assume that this product came out of nowhere.  Thus it is beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend that the world can exist without something owning it, and a higher being observing and running it.

195451[/snapback]

Your logic is flawed as I am an atheist, being without God or not believing in the existence of a God, but also an Agnostic as I am without knowledge of a God as how can one have knowledge of a God if he/she may not exist. This does of course mean that I also cannot know their isn't a God, which I don't. I know that I cannot believe in something which I cannot have proof of or know of, but I also know that means not having knowledge of the non-existence of God. I have my beliefs but I may be wrong.

This is often confused with sitting on the fence. However it is not, it is clearly the only logical position. To accept that one cannot know God without proof of God and conclude that in the absence of proof one can only rely on reason.

I can deduce that there is not a God from the weight of evidence showing injustice for all of mans history before and after Christ. Could a God that knows and sees all including the future have created all this. Well if He did he isn't much of a moral hero. Would a God allow his son to die and punish his son on our behalf. I think not. If such a creature exists can he be said to be a God worthy of admiration.

If God is the creator and existed before time and space. Where and when was he? Ah so these are divine mysteries. You mean blind belief. Be His Flock then, but I am not a Sheep or Lamb to the Slaughter. I am a Man and will stand and fall by my words and deeds.

PS- There goes your beyond the human mind argument... My mind has no problem with this idea of existence without meaning. I am after all a scientist.

Edited by fairyliquidizer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you're an atheist, you acknowledge that there is a G-D but you reject him.

Classic straw man fallacy. Misrepresent someone's argument to destroy it. Your statement is also a non-sequitor...by definition, an atheist is someone who does not believe a god exists. You are confusing atheist with someone who dislikes god...would you also say that a deist must like god?

When we create something, or see a finished product, it is beyond our comprehension to assume that this product came out of nowhere.  Thus it is beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend that the world can exist without something owning it, and a higher being observing and running it.

You are very presumptuous here. The layers and layers of challengable assumptions here make this a very weak argument.

I can deduce that there is not a God from the weight of evidence showing injustice for all of mans history before and after Christ. Could a God that knows and sees all including the future have created all this. Well if He did he isn't much of a moral hero. Would a God allow his son to die and punish his son on our behalf. I think not. If such a creature exists can he be said to be a God worthy of admiration.

If God is the creator and existed before time and space. Where and when was he? Ah so these are divine mysteries. You mean blind belief. Be His Flock then, but I am not a Sheep or Lamb to the Slaughter. I am a Man and will stand and fall by my words and deeds.

Unfortunately, this is only evidence against a particular kind of god. God need not be "nice" or the source of all good, or even care a whit about us one way or the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your logic is flawed as I am an atheist, being without God or not believing in the existence of a God, but also an Agnostic as I am without knowledge of a God as how can one have knowledge of a God if he/she may not exist.

Merriam Webster defines Atheist as: one who believes that there is no deity

The word atheist in itself is a paradox, because if I come to you and say "I don't believe carrots exist" I am giving credibility to the fact that carrots do exist, because I know what a carrot is.

Look at the definition of an agnostic. Depending on the way you translate agsnotic, from Merriam Webster:

a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly

This view actually ascribes to a higher being. Something which is unknowable because it is beyond our comprehension.

one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

This translation doesen't either adequately describe something other than the existance of G-D. It merely defines a person who does not care whether G-D exists or not.

I know that I cannot believe in something which I cannot have proof of or know of

This too is innacurate. Take your computer for instance. You have the product, it calculates for you, processes information, etc... You don't know exactly how it works, it's a complex system of microprocessors, transistors, and technology which would take a human being an innordinate amount of time to acquire.

Your only "proof" of computers is that it is sitting in front of you and it is working. So why can you ascribe such faith to a computer when you see it in motion but cannot ascribe faith to G-D when you see His work in motion. Isn't the fact that plants and trees grow and the complex system of organisms enough to prove to you that a higher being must have created it?

I can deduce that there is not a God from the weight of evidence showing injustice for all of mans history before and after

Once again this is not proof. This is merely a reason to be angry or reject G-D. In order to reject something however, you must admit to its existance beforehand.

I am after all a scientist

Science and G-D do not contradict eachother. If you disagree, attempt to prove to me a situation that they do. Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneersohn actually addressed this issue over his lifetime there are many letters available on this topic. In the early sixties many Jewish scientists had written to him about the seeming contradictions between science and Torah.

The Rebbe proved that science is in fact quite limited in what it can and cannot do, while Torah is the opposite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now