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Blitzkrieg

Tax Foundation study

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I got curious about this after reading how some foreign media view our election aftermath. Here is an interesting study from tax foundation, numbers may have changed since.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxingspending.html

about tax foundation http://www.taxfoundation.org/general.html

The Tax Foundation Story

The year was 1937, the heart of the Great Depression. During the previous decade, first under Herbert Hoover, then under Franklin Roosevelt, federal spending had climbed 170 percent; over the previous five years internal revenue collections had risen 198 percent.

Concerned about the effect such expansion might have on private sector growth, a small group of business executives gathered in New York City to discuss how they could monitor fiscal activities at all levels of government and convey the information to the general public. They decided to launch an organization which, through research and analysis, could inform and educate Americans using objective, reliable data on government finance.

In the subsequent six decades, the Tax Foundation has been a national leader in promoting a sense of "tax consciousness" in the public. Its distribution of information has helped provide policy makers with the lay of the land in the ongoing debate over tax and budget policies, as well as with a greater understanding of the policies proposed.

In its six decades, the Tax Foundation has earned a reputation for its independence in gathering data and publishing information on the public sector in an objective, unbiased fashion. As a 501©(3) tax-exempt educational organization, the Tax Foundation exists on voluntary contributions from philanthropic foundations, corporations, and individuals across the country.

Some people accused tax foundation more "right leaning" but I think it's simply because current "right leaning" people tend to favor smaller government, rather than a bloated big public sector, which is what tax foundation was founded on.

Here is an article from fortune

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/careers/art...00.html?cnn=yes

It is not clear cut as there are "red" states who pay more than they receive as well as "blue" states who receive more than they paid out. But, it's interesting to note you have a better than 50% chance of getting right on which state voted Bush or Kerry based on their give/receive ratio.

I guess I should go join my cousin in Alabama ;) They and some other states sure get a lot of federal dollars.

My worry is are we going to continue this divide or we will be unified. I am too young to know what civil war era was like, except through reading and watching. Are we heading that direction slowly or it's just temporary?

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Yeah, but if we residents of blue states were to split from the red states and form our own country where would we get people to go and fight our wars for us?

We need middle America to keep cranking out corn-fed farm boys to fill our tanks.

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Yeah, but if we residents of blue states were to split from the red states and form our own country where would we get people to go and fight our wars for us?

The same place we did when we split up last time? Didn't we win that war? Of course, we were blue back then.

Frank

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Point taken. I propose a constitutional amendment that no state shall receive more in annual federal funds than the average of which it has paid in federal taxes over the previous 5 years. Emergency funds for disasters and such could be excluded I suppose.

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Point taken.  I propose a constitutional amendment that no state shall receive more in annual federal funds than the average of which it has paid in federal taxes over the previous 5 years.  Emergency funds for disasters and such could be excluded I suppose.

And I propose a Constitutional ammendment that we don't tax income, so the fedral government won't have the money to give/waste in the first place. Oh, wait. That's already IN the constitution!

Frank

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Not totally on topic, but im wondering..

Exactly how much tax does an american pay generally?

25% 50%?

To give a good example i live in denmark and im taxed the following way:

First i pay 8% of my total income, for something Called ATP, the money will be returned when i someday decide i need to retire (63 years)

from whats left i pay 2 % in another tax called AM bidrag.

and then i pay my 40% tax, minus my personal amount of money i can deduct from tax for different reasons (loans etc.) i would say the tax percentage goes down to around 30% in my case.

All in all, i have 25.500 before taxes, and 15.000 after taxes.

Then ofcause in denmark people pay VAT of 25% on everything we buy in the shops.

:)

On the other hand we get basically everything free from the goverment, education, hospitals etc.

Darking

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Exactly how much tax does an american pay generally?

Your income taxes came out to 41% but you didn't state whether what you make is considered a good salary or an average one.

An average person making $35,000 annually will pay $2677.50 for Social Security (their employer pays a matching amount). Assuming that they can't itemize any deductions a single person in 2003 will get a standard deduction of $4700 and a personal exemption of $3050, plus an additional exemption of $3050 for each dependent. The remainder of the income is taxed at the following rates (again for 2003):

first $0 to $7000 (10%)

next $7000 to $28400 (15%)

next $28400 to $68800 (25%)

next $68800 to $143500 (28%)

next $143500 to $311950 (33%)

next $311950 to infinity (35%)

Therefore, a single person with no dependents making $35,000 will have a taxable income of $27250 and will pay a total federal tax of $3737.50. Total federal and Social Security tax will be $6415. Most states have income taxes as well, and some localities like New York City have a local income tax. Both of these taxes combined in NYC will be roughly $2500. Therefore, the total tax on $35,000 in NYC would be roughly $8900, or about 25.5% of total income.

For higher incomes the situation is much worse. For an income of $100,000, you would pay about $43,000 in taxes , or 43%. In general, the majority of workers in the US pay between 20% and 40% in income taxes. If you're self employed and not an S-corp add another 7.65% to the above numbers because you have to pay double in Social Security tax.

There is no national VAT or sales tax, but most localities impose some sort of sales tax. The rate here in NYC is 8.65%.

On the other hand we get basically everything free from the goverment, education, hospitals etc.

Unfortunately, the majority of working people in the US don't qualify for any benefits other than free education through high school, and perhaps grants and loans which cover some of the cost of college. This is one reason we don't like our current high levels of taxation. We really don't get anywhere near an equivalent amount in benefits back. The only people who benefit from the system are those who don't work, or who make very low salaries. However, even at minimum wage ($5.75/hour or $11,960 per year), a worker in NYC will still pay about $1200, or 10%, in income taxes. Most of this is for Social Security, which is a highly regressive tax of 7.65% which starts on the first dollar of income.

I've always hated the idea of an income tax but I never thought taxes would get this high. The government should take no more than 10% from anybody, and better yet no more than 3%. I'd personally like to see the income tax completely done away with and replaced with a consumption tax.

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In the US,

A person making $50K pays about $7500 in federal.

A person making $80K pats about $17000 in federal.

This does not include, state, sales, social security, unemployment, medicare/medicade, and the actual cost to have someone prepare your taxes.

Over 40% of my income goes to the government. I could probably run this country on a quarter of that. It kinda sux that most voters choose "Dumb and Dumber" when they go to the polls. Which reminds me of a joke.......

Dumb............ Dumber.............. Dubya!

Frank

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Consider yourself lucky...

My wife and I both experienced "paycheck shrink" shock. We both put money into 401K, etc. After all deductibles are done, including health insurance premium, dental, social, 401k, etc. We are lucky to take home 40% of our paycheck....depends on how much we contribute to our 401K, it can be even less.

All these changed after we bought a home as US government subsdize mortgage interest. Essentially, the higher tax bracket you are in, the more taxes you "save" in mortage interest.

Bascially, you pay the same amount of money out of your pocket, difference is, it goes either to the bank or the federal government, your total outlay will not change, just distribution will as every dollar you paid towards mortgage interest payment is 100% tax deductible.

I really really assume we get better and more service for losing 40-60% of our paycheck (we do get 401K money back so that's why I put in that range and depending on our income bracket % change) Oh wait, I forgot, government just announced another 80-100 million dollars goes towards Fallujah reconstruction.....how much of that goes to local Iraqi is another issue but our precious tax dollar is gone, I certainly won't benefit from those money...

One problem I have with Iraq war, just either grab the oil and be honest about it or get out.... Why spend money, try to grab oil, and pretend we're on high morale ground when in reality, we see we're being gouged by Haliburton and others...without bid....

Life is sure fair....

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Im sorry to say, but one of the "roles" of beeing a rich western country(especially if you bomb the hell out of another), is that you need to help rebuild countries, to prevent stuff like terrorism happening, and i personally believe that if spent correctly can have a very positive effect on things.

And 100 million dollars is just a drop in the ocean, i would rather ask yourself i you really need a (i think its) 200 billion dollar defense budget, instead of using some of the money to fix things that are broken inside your country (poverty etc.)

And regarding the ~300K Dkr i earn a year, its by no means a high salary, i think a normally family income with two "workers" is around 500.000K.

Unfortunately i decided to work in a goverment paid job, and the salary is nothing cheer about, i know people who work for ibm that make 700.000K just for working with mainframes.

On the other end, they pay highend taxes, and my 40% will in their case be something like 52%, for every Dkr over 305.000 earned a year.

I wont say im actually happy about paying so much tax, especially because things like fuel and cars, are highly expensive here too, a gallon of 95 octane fuel costs 6$. And a car costs 3!!!(three) times the amount that it would cost in sweden or germany, who are our closest neighbours.. an BMW 530i costs around 1.200.000+ dkr, a peugoet 407 stationcar, costs 500.000

But i can surely see the benefits of a high tax too.

Darking

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I used to be more idealistic, help others to become democacies and all, until I started to learn foreign languages and travel some parts of the world.

I found although USA is giving aid, we are not being appreciated most of the time, that's when I started to question why do we still give out all those aid?

I became more isolationist as time goes by. September 11 was a wake up call for me but I dont' support our Iraq adventure. Our reason was Al Qaeda and WMD, it seems we were relying on false intelligence or perhaps it was done intentionally to finish off Bush Sr.'s business and/or for oil?

We should go after Al Qaeda, finish up our business in Afghanistan rather than starting a new one.

It saddens me when I travel in other nation and hear the following

"Your English is so good"

"You're an Amerian? You seem to be so cultured"

Sometimes for national pride, sometimes not, American aid can be quickly forgotten, instead people may remember "bad" side of America.

I understand French has their pride due to their culture and history, yet it is sad to hear the tour guide in Louvre talking about how the French rebuilt Louvre, their efforts, sacrifice, when there was a plaque, thanking donation from an American, to help Louvre rebuild after WWII. It was all French and purely French, no American assistance was required to get everything back up and running.

I don't know if I should feel lucky or sad, when people may not think I'm an American, but just an Asian who can speak fluent English. I learned what others thought of American by accident, especially when they tried to speak Japanese or other languages to me and I was able to respond in kind, then switch to English if needed. I just did not like what others thought about America, especially given how much aid we may have gave in the past and now.

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