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IQ and Politics

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"Never underestimate stupid people in mass numbers"

-Some person

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

  State 	 Avg. IQ 	 2004
1  Connecticut  113  Kerry
2  Massachusetts  111  Kerry
3  New Jersey  111  Kerry
4  New York  109  Kerry
5  Rhode Island  107  Kerry
6  Hawaii  106  Kerry
7  Maryland  105  Kerry
8  New Hampshire  105  Kerry
9  Illinois  104  Kerry
10  Delaware  103  Kerry
11  Minnesota  102  Kerry
12  Vermont  102  Kerry
13  Washington  102  Kerry
14  California  101  Kerry
15  Pennsylvania  101  Kerry
16  Maine  100  Kerry
17  Virginia  100  Bush
18  Wisconsin  100  Kerry
19  Colorado  99  Bush
20  Iowa  99  Bush
21  Michigan  99  Kerry
22  Nevada  99  Bush
23  Ohio  99  Bush
24  Oregon  99  Kerry
25  Alaska  98  Bush
26  Florida  98  Bush
27  Missouri  98  Bush
28  Kansas  96  Bush
29  Nebraska  95  Bush
30  Arizona  94  Bush
31  Indiana  94  Bush
32  Tennessee  94  Bush
33  North Carolina  93  Bush
34  West Virginia  93  Bush
35  Arkansas  92  Bush
36  Georgia  92  Bush
37  Kentucky  92  Bush
38  New Mexico  92  Bush
39  North Dakota  92  Bush
40  Texas  92  Bush
41  Alabama  90  Bush
42  Louisiana  90  Bush
43  Montana  90  Bush
44  Oklahoma  90  Bush
45  South Dakota  90  Bush
46  South Carolina  89  Bush
47  Wyoming  89  Bush
48  Idaho  87  Bush
49  Utah  87  Bush
50  Mississippi  85  Bush

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IQ itself is not a reliable measure of anything other than academic intelligence. It doesn't predict success, happiness, or anything else. And by definition in any large enough population (I think a state qualifies) the average IQ will be 100. I certainly don't believe that data. New York has an average IQ of 109? Based on the way people in this state and especially this city vote on many issues I think they missed a decimal point. And if they're trying to use some correlation equation between income and IQ to get these figures, then again they're wrong. The average income in those states at the top of the list is higher because the cost of living is higher. NYC pays garbage collectors $40,000 per year not because they're geniuses, but thanks to the high cost of living and the labor unions.

This election was a choice between two assholes. It don't think picking one asshole over the other shows that a person has a higher IQ. When I was in the voting booth it almost boiled down to flipping a coin. It's embarrassing to us as a nation that this is the best we could up with. In the future we should stick to using scientists, engineers, doctors, dentists, etc. Basically any professional in a line of work which requires them to be objective, and which required a high IQ to excel in. Now we have mostly lawyers in charge. They are manipulative, petty, partisan, and frankly most are none too bright either.

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SO stupid poeple are republicans?

No, I dont think so. I think there is a better corralation between income and politics than anything else. Democrats are stuck up, rich poeple, who wanna look out for the 'poor unfortunate masses'. Republicans are poorer poeple who want to be richer poeple - they want the government outa thier way so they can go out and earn a better living for themselves and thier families...

There was a map showing per capita income by district, the uper income districts, Kerry took. The lower to mid income districts, Bush took....

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This election was a choice between two assholes.

Basically. Kerry seemed lesser of the two evils for me. Plus Kerry could form complete sentences.

Democrats are stuck up, rich poeple, who wanna look out for the 'poor unfortunate masses'. Republicans are poorer poeple who want to be richer poeple - they want the government outa thier way so they can go out and earn a better living for themselves and thier families...

Really? So why are Republicans giving tax breaks to the rich?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6307293/

Bush quietly signs corporate tax-cut bill

$136 billion measure assailed for catering to special interests

Right before the election, too.

SO stupid poeple are republicans?

Not at all. The Republicans in Congress seem to half a lot of intelligence. They did a good job of conving people of fake WMDs.

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The devastation of Tuesday's returns cannot be minimized. The transformation of the "Solid South" from Democrat to Republican was completed. Not only were all 11 states of the old Confederacy carried by President Bush, but the pickup of all five Senate seats left vacant by retiring Democrats means 18 of the region's 22 senators are Republican. Domination of Congress by the GOP now enters its second decade with Democrats largely restricted to enclaves on both coasts and some Midwestern industrial areas.

Democrats confront a grim future. Bush's 3.5-million-vote edge in the popular vote reflects a party out of touch with the country on social issues, the role of government and the war against terrorism. Democrats face the bitter reality of minority party status and what to do about it.

--snip--

In the wake of Kerry's unimpressive candidacy, Democrats ponder the alternative of Howard Dean's radicalism that is even further removed from the political mainstream. The more attractive course would be a return to the artful Southerner model of Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton -- conservative in style, liberal in substance. But with the Republican sweep in Dixie, there are no such Democrats to choose from -- certainly not Sen. John Edwards, who as vice-presidential candidate exerted no impact in his own state of North Carolina. Sen. Hillary Clinton as the presidential nominee in 2008 would only compound the party's dilemma.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/04/...rats/index.html

The Domocratic disaster of 2004...

The domocrats where outa touch with reality, and they got a wake up call. Weather they hit the snooz button agian for another 4 years, is up to them... But looking forward to 2008, Iam thinking Rudy/Powell... (hey I could be wrong... but wouldnt that compleatly wreck the democrats base?)

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Anyone whom believes either party (or any politician for that matter) has a genuine interest for the tax payer is not living in reality. It would not benefit any government in the world to have its citizens be (or become) self sufficient. Government needs us to believe we need them, hence they're never gonna make life easier for the masses.

Any & every happy fellowing thing government has "given" us was taken from us in the first place. So don't think for a second that a tax break or another piece of sunshine blown up your asses is a "favour" from Big Brother.

Being a politician is the absolute lowest of the low. In fact, I truly believe of all people & of all jobs people can pursue, politicians touch the fewest people's lives & help the fewest people (directly or indirectly). Even a waitress at the corner diner will impact more people in her job than some lowlife in Capitol Hill. Yet many of us idolize politicians like they're happy fellowing heroes.

No matter how you slice it or dice it, there are only two types of people in politics:

  • 1: people too stupid to make it in the real world (the Bush types)
  • 2: people whom have already "made it" & are bored with the real world (the Schwarzenegger types)

The rest of us have real jobs.

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I'm a registered independent and proud of it! :)

Always refreshing when someone realizes there are more than two ideologies.

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I just cannot identify myself completely with either parties.

My background is more "complicated". When we immigrated to USA over 20 years ago, we lived in someone's garage. After 2 years, we managed to purchase our own home, a forclosed property. It required some work and also required all of us pitching in. I had to get up at 4AM everyday to deliver newspaper otherwise I won't make the 6:30AM deadline.

In high school, without teacher's help, I would have struggled more. My teachers helped me by signing me up or telling me where some of the contests are. I won an Apple //c from a programm contest. I managed to go to some state level competition because my teachers helped me apply for scholarships. Otherwise, I won't be able to make it due to financial reasons.

Believe it or not, a simple scientific calculator for my chemistry and algebra class at that time was a burden as I had to spend a good portion of my own income to purchase it. I was happy to find food on the table as my parents had to struggle to keep our family afloat financially.

I couldn't afford to visit all the colleges that accepted me, for one of the school (an ivy leaguer) that accepted me, I had to ask an admission official for help. Without his generosity (he gave me enough money to purchase greyhound tickets to visit his school), I won't be able to make it.

All of those experiences made me sympathetic to immigrants and other people who had to claw their way up economically. But, as I age, I started to lose patience with some people. The big turning point was the time when I lived in Berkeley. I offered some homeless people "job" intead of a straight hand out when they accosted me. Instead, they just wanted my money or worse, cussed at me when I refused. I had to work my way up, why can't others?

It disgusted me when my wife and I went on an all veggie diet (more or less) when we purchased our own home. We did it for financial reasons as our grocery bill can be just $20 or so a week by going that route. But, my wife and I looked at each other, when we saw a mother with a couple children in tow walk up behind us, with food stamps in hand, and bought a bag of dungeoness crabs. I remember my parents struggled to feed us nutrious food on a budget. I was horrified at that mother's choice. Is this how my tax money is being spent? Why should I help these people when we had to eat veggie due to financial reasons while people on foodstamps are buying dungeoness crabs?

I find issues and values in both parties that I identify with. I now live in the American dream, with house, car, child, and of course, debt :) But, I just cannot accept either party completely due to my past experience as I find merit in both.

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IQ itself is not a reliable measure of anything other than academic intelligence.

IQ is 'supposed' to exclude any academics. Real IQ tests are mostly problem solving and patern recognition. While this may be learned behavior, it certainly is not part of mainstream courseware, and is usually unintentionally passed down from the parents.

I totally agree with the 'two assholes' comment, with the exception that we had Brown, Nader, Cobb, and Badnerik on the ballots in 47 or 48 of the states. Are you a Republican that hates the religious policies? Vote Libertarian. Are you a Democrat that wants everything for free (gratis, not libre). Vote Green. Do you want a qualified man in office? Vote for Brown (unless you are totally against socialism).

There are tons of candidates.

Thank you for your time,

Frank Russo

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My point about the IQ test is that the skills it tests for that generally don't seem to be useful anywhere else except academia. Granted, the tests exclude academic subjects perse, but general intelligence is only one facet of a person's makeup. For example, finding the next number in a sequence, or which shape is most like the other, are not things which are terribly useful in real life. However, nearly anybody who does well on an IQ test will excel in school if they want to. Doing well in school though has never been a reliable predictor of success in other areas of life, whether personal or professional. That's why I said that IQ tests are rather poor at predicting success in anything but school. Even in that area they're not particularly reliable because they can't predict how much effort a person will put into school. Plenty of intelligent people did poorly in school simply because they failed to put in the work.

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All of those experiences made me sympathetic to immigrants and other people who had to claw their way up economically. 

Interestingly, I also grew up rather poor although not anywhere near as poor as you. We lived in a NYC housing project until I was 15. After that, my parents purchased a home which is where I'm living now. I still lack a decent income for various reasons, but I can't say at this point that I lack the necessities. I remember things like not being able to take class trips because my parents couldn't afford it, and also not being able to visit colleges I applied to.

But, as I age, I started to lose patience with some people.  The big turning point was the time when I lived in Berkeley.  I offered some homeless people "job" intead of a straight hand out when they accosted me.  Instead, they just wanted my money or worse, cussed at me when I refused.  I had to work my way up, why can't others?

I've pretty much always felt that way. While I was and am sympathethic to someone trying to work their way up, I'm completely disgusted by people who either cause their own problems with substance abuse or having babies they can't afford, or who absolutely refuse to lift a finger to help themselves. I pretty much sacrificed my childhood getting into a good college and then obtaining a degree. I was never able to get a decent job despite that due to the economy, but at least I laid the groundwork. About 15 years ago I gave up looking for work and simply decided to go into business for myself. Maybe I'll eventually succeed, maybe I won't, but at least I'm not asking for government handouts in the meantime. I feel as you do-if I can try to work my way up, why can't everybody? The tools are there for whomever wants them-free public education, scholarships. If you're lucky you'll find sympathethic people willing to help, although sadly I had zero help getting a job out of college or I might be a lot more successful financially now.

I remember my parents struggled to feed us nutrious food on a budget.  I was horrified at that mother's choice.  Is this how my tax money is being spent?  Why should I help these people when we had to eat veggie due to financial reasons while people on foodstamps are buying dungeoness crabs?

I'm equally disgusted when I see people on food stamps buying bags of potato chips, soda, and other crap food. Also, my brother remembers seeing "poor" people at the pharmacy he used to work at obtain free drugs with Medicaid, and then get into a late model car. Evidently they're not as poor as they claim. I always thought "poor" people couldn't afford cars. I know I can't.

I find fault with entitlements which don't force some sort of responsibility on people. I also think we should do more thorough background checks to see if those receiving handouts really are as poor as they claim. Nearly everyone I knew who received welfare also worked off the books. The welfare was merely an income supplement to them, not a necessity. I wish the government did less for lazy people but more to help those trying to help themselves. For example, I think the government should pay for college for anybody who gets into a school and maintains a high average. This will reward those who are serious about bettering themselves while not paying for those who go to college to party for four years. The current system of partial grants and mostly student loans is no good. A person shouldn't start their working life with tens of thousands in debt.

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the lowest income people and minorities are largely democrats. rural people are largely republicans, and it's not because the government is in their way out there or because they're motivated to earn lots of money. they vote on religion, guns, and perceived toughness.

i don't see any way that giuliani/powell would fly as a ticket. rudy is credited with cleaning up new york and his handling of 9/11 but he's personally regarded as a wreck and i would be surprised if people would consider him responsible enough to run the country. powell had the presidency in his hands when he had the oprah mystique but his reputation has been run into the ground with this administration.

mccain would be an excellent and obvious choice but he has expressed that he has no intentions of running again a whole lot.

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I have some comment to give,

Some said that they are disgusted to see poor people using food stamp to buy potato chip or thing like that. Some are not only monetary poor they are uneducated and no im not talking math and geography. They are easily influenced by tv and other publicity of all the scrap that sell in store. And lot of them are depressed or have other neurological or mental problem, or have drug, alcool, or money gambling problem or a combination of those. Saying that some people put themselve in those bad situation and being disgusted by that , it s a very simplistic way of seing it :(

People are disgusted by them and act with them just like they where garbage or are aggressive with them, just like i have seen in some post in this thread. I find 1000 time more disgusting to see people abusing other people. And capitalism is all about that, it did nt work without that.

How disgusting is to see people being poor to the point of having problem getting food and a place to live in, all that in an very economically develloped country???.....it s very disgusting. Why should some poeple have to work indecently hard to go out of poverty and maybe they will fail to do it even with the greatest of effort. Lot of them work only to survive nothing more :(

What i see is that we are currently in a period of negative devellopment, quality of life of lot of people are decreasing fast or are simply staying low. In my country the economic situation are so good that we almost reached ou maximum productivity according to economist. But we have more and more poor people, general quality of life is decreasing too (no work or too much work). Our last goverment said he will decrease poverty in children by 50% for years 2000 and guess what, it increased by 50%.... but the **economy** is going better and better... <_<

The level of education that is needed for good job is going high and the quality of lot of school is going down. Outdated teaching, lack of up to date equipment, 2 or 3 time more thing to learn in half the time people had 30 years back, skyrocketing cost etc... being poor on top of that is somewhat too hard for lot of people. some have ot live in the street some fall in drug or alcool abuse etc....

What about a fair system that take care of human need and problem, not one ruled by money making as the main value.....

Nishiki :-)

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Lol ouch.  Sucks to be from Mississippi.  :o

Yes. I am from Idaho, which shares second place for lowest IQ with Utah. This is really quite embarrasing.

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I have some comment to give,

Some said that they are disgusted to see poor people using food stamp to buy potato chip or thing like that. Some are not only monetary poor they are uneducated and no im not talking math and geography. They are easily influenced by tv and other publicity of all the scrap that sell in store.  And lot of them are depressed or have other neurological or mental problem, or have drug, alcool, or money gambling problem or a combination of those. Saying that some people put themselve in those bad situation and being disgusted by that , it s a very simplistic way of seing it :(

A very nice post Nishiki - I have worked as a partner in an advertising and marketing firm, and you people would NOT believe the utter contempt most advertisers feel for their "target audiences." Internally, advertising companies see them as sheep that can be co-oerced into almost anything, as long as they can just get the right emotional appeal, the right touch, the right music...

Unfortunately, the only counter to this appeal is education, because in high enough doses intellectualism can trump emotionalism. Notice the qualifier - emotion is such a BASIC human component that it takes an awful lot of intellect to overcome it, and even educated people can be swayed and made to rethink their decisions with enough exposure to opposite points of view. In fact, the more educated someone is, marketing research suggests that its EASIER to get them to re-think their view, as they try to "look at things from both sides."

Take a segment of the population with parents that are poorly educated, with poor schools (because we make funding for them locality based, rather than linearly federal), and you have an open feeding ground for Madison Avenue advertisers to influence. This includes both inner cities and rural communities...it is true - marketers test a lot of ad campaigns in small towns that have both extremes, such as in Illinois.

Given all the poor behavior incited by companies (eat junk food, play don't work, go see a movie instead of read a book, etc.), it makes it very insidious for the poorly educated to rise above.

Future Shock

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Need to make this quick...

Like I said before, I have been through some economic "hardship" before so I can feel for those people. However, we need a system that hold people accountable, provide opportunities for people who are willing to work to get ahead while at the same time, discourage people from abusing the system.

There are really too many examples. Two years ago, I got involved in so called "affordable housing" or "welfare housing" as opponents called them. I was horrified when people in charge disregard studies showing how to make "affordable" housing succeed and cluster those units together, which is detrimental to affordable housing project success.

Unfortunately, while I got involved in trying to change the power in charge, I learned more disturbing facts...

Affordable housing was supposd to help local teachers, firefighters, police, etc. to be able to afford to live close by where they work, it's not always so. I have neighbors who are teachers, firefighters, police...who can afford to live in decent area, not because they make a lot of money, they all have oen thing is common, prudent saving/investment plan. One firefighter started with very low cost housing and moved his way up slowly. A junior high school teacher managed to save enough for downpayment and bought the cheapest house in that neighborhood.

When I spoke to one of those firefighter, in trying to solicit his support to let our city council know they're making a mistake, I was told what it can be like in thoseunits. He gets called to those units for various disturbances as firefighters often double up as paramedics. It was disturbing to me to learn those people often have large screen TV, watching them past midnight with junk food strewn on the floor when firefighters arrive. At that time, we didn't have any working TV as our 10+ years old 19 inch TV broke. we know from our costco coupon book some TV are going to be on sale soon so we were waiting to buy another TV to replace our broken one.

Those people, who use foodstamps to purchase crabs, rather than nutrious food, as well as those who squander their money on items they don't absolutely have to have, will probably never dig themselves out of that hole. I learned from my past experience, you need to live within your means. Do I like veggie diet, no, but I had to face the reality. Do I like a huge TV, of course I do but my wife and I only had budget of $200 to replace our TV.

We draw up budget and we stick to it as well as putting money aside for our retirement. We are trying to save money for our baby's education but so far, we haven't been able to put in any money yet. We have to work, forgo pleasure, sacrifice for the future and it's disturbing to see those people who squander our tax dollars.

Just recently, when my wife just gave birth in the hospital, I went to a local Wendy's restraunt to pick up some mid-night snack. A person, who obviously have a good constitution as it's getting cold at night, he wears only a t-shirt, with bulging muscle...demanding food from Wendy's.

At first he was making the request for the dog outside...I was in line, right after him, so I heard all the exchanges. The manager decide to give him a free burget just to get rid of him so they can serve me and other customers behind me. But, when the burger arrived, that "beggar" had the nerve to say it has no bacon inside...so much for beggars cannot be choosers...the dog was not even his because I saw its true owner unleashed him and walked away...

I got my food so I left quickly, I guess he failed to get more and rushed out, tried to accost me, stop me, I didn't pause as I learned my lessons in Berkeley...he banged on my minivan's door and window to try to get me to stop and give him money...

You dont' have to be smart to make your way around. A few years ago, I met someone from my old high school, also another immigrant. He was not very bright, while some of us are in honor, AP, or IB programs, he was in A or even B lane classes, struggling. But, he is doing well now, started at the bottom but now owns a car modification shop, making more money than me. Why do people, who are obvious capable of making money, with muscle, with no apparent mental disorder, demanding free deluxe burgers and asking people like me for money?

Anyways, I still have sympthy, it's just for the past few years, I become less and less sympathetic to people who abuse our system. Without financial aid, I wouldn't be able to attend college. Heck, I wouldn't be able to attend all the contests I was qualified without money. Our government is not doing its job right. My cousin was a social worker, helping people getting off welfare, their program was more expensive but worked...state government decide to cut their program because it cost too much...ignore huge future savings for a small current "saving"....my cousin saw what's coming and got out before the axe fell, some of his co-workers weren't as lucky... One of my cousin was on county contract to educate prisoners, motivate them, she was affected too. Those prisoners will be create more problems when they are released....without adequate skills or attitude adjustments :(

Another family friend was in child services, again, lots of idiotic policies...sigh...

Due to our experience and family upbring, my extended family has a good portion doing missionary work or social. there are 8 of us in my generation, 2 are missionary, serving in USA or abroad, one in seminary school and will be a missionary too soon. We are sympathetic to the plight of less fortunate but due our our experience in those areas, it pains me to see how our government is not making the right decisions....

We need program that focus on prevention, education, provide opportunities for peopel who are willing to pull them ahead. If people who are not willing to do so, can our society afford to provide welfare to them forever? It gives people like me less incentive to work hard when I see people abuse our system.

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You can talk about cutting entitlements all you want - the unsavory fact is that we have, AS A RESULT OF FORCED SLAVERY, a huge underclass with little education, no culture of sucess (unless being a drug dealer counts as sucessful), paltry work ethic, and even an entire different language in many respects (esp. if you include Hispanic immagrants with no passable English).

OK - it sucks. But as "unfair" as it is, we pay for entitlement programs because we as society recognize that we simply have no answer for it - it takes GENERATIONS to integrate ex-slave populations, if it happens at all. That's not only been our problem, it has befallen the Romans who imported slave labour, the Japanese who imported slave labour, etc. And the answer is always the same - many, many generations have to pass to mix the two cultures sufficiently so that being an "ex-slave" (culturaly, not personally) is not a severe determinant upon your economic future. Go ask the Koreans (many of whom come from families that are decended from slaves) living in Japan...

Without "entitlements", we would simply have MASSIVE social unrest - riots, robberies, a wholescale social upheaval that would resemble the worst of the '60s. Now, in the rural areas it's easy to say "ahh, who cares?", but those of us in more populated areas know it could be our families injured, our cars burned, our houses torched...go read the old papers, this was COMMONPLACE during '60s social unrest such as race riots. WE AS A SOCIETY PAY ENTITLEMENTS BECAUSE THEY ARE CHEAPER ECONOMICALLY THAN RADICAL SOCIAL UNREST - think of the difficulties of doing business in that climate, and realize the very negative impact it would have on US economic growth. That impact is believed to be a lot higher than the cost of entitlements by many, including myself.

The only real solution is to invest heavily in equal education in poor as well as rich areas, a situation that quite simply doesn't exist today, nor will it in the near-term. Everyone rich wants locally funded schools so their kids can have "a leg up", which they rationally feel they should be able to afford for their kids. Everyone who wants to assist the poor in transitioning from a dependancy-based economy to a self-reliant economy knows that it requires massive federal funding to level out the difference in local tax bases used to fund the schools. Ironically, these school-equalization programs are often assailed by the right wing as another "handout", when they are in fact the only thing that can end handouts long-term...

Lastly, even with adequate education, it will take generations to resolve - we still are only 2-3 generations removed from slavery itself. And another step in aiding it is to limit further immigration, so that we can concentrate on boosting the capital of the populace we have on hand, rather than allowing them to remain a permanant underclass to new arrivals...

Future Shock

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I don't think I have ever said I oppose to education opportunities. What I have is problem with current system that I believe need to be fixed, not abolished completely.

Education is the way to go, I agree with it 100%. However, there are a lot of obstacles preventing those 2 groups you mentioned from succeeding.

I have avoided naming races because there are exception to stereo types so I don't feel it was right to generalize too broadly but I guess I have no choice now.

1. black's own culture is a big detriment to success. Black have a lot of "role models" in sports, lots. But, a black kid, especially one from poor inner city, has bullets to "look foward" to when they go to school and do well. I know that because I met a friend in college, whose story really moved me. I only had to deal with lack of money in my life, but not a lot of drugs and violence, unlike him. He was raised by his grandma, he never talked about his parents. He told me he had to dodge bullets in order to go to school. For those black students in order to get into decent college is very hard as they can be harassed for studying. This needs to be addressed. In TV commercial, etc. you will see black kids play hoops or what not, but not too many black kids study... There are blacks who are realizing those, urging black men not to beat up on their wife, black parents speak normal english, not ebonics.

2. hispanic culture doesn't focus on education, they are more community oriented.

Jews, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Indian, many Asian culture and Jewish culture stress education, even more so than "European" cultures and we can see how successful those groups are in school. I have cousins who dated blacks, etc. and we compare notes. Our extended family now include Israeli, Caucasian, Indian, Thai, a variety of culture but no hispanic nor blacks because it's easier to have clashes as those 2 cultures don't focus on education as much as ours.

Koreans are discriminated against, no doubt about it, that's why some pachinko parlor in Japan are owned by Koreans as they try to carve out a niche for themselves. But, there are "successful" stories of Koreans too though, Son Masayoshi, founder of softbank, is doing quite well financially. It's harder to find similar situation black entrepreneur, much easier to find successful black entertainer or atheletes.

Should we perpetual this divide or should we do something to try to change those 2 group's minds? BTW, people living in low income housing aren't necessarily all blacks, there are whites too and they're alll similar in one respect, they don't know the value of savings and investment and love to spend beyond their means.

I dont' want to address specific group because whites and even Asians can be low income and live in low income housing. I know someone, whose family was in worse was living in subsdized apartment for about ten years. They now own 3 homes and they are multi-millionaires. The difference between them and others still living in those subsdized housing? They worked and saved to send their children to college and save/invested their money. They really made a killing in the stock market during those boom years. If they don't learn how to save and invest, it'll be hard for them to dig out of their situation. We should provide a welfare system that work, encourage people to move up, not wallow in self-pity and demand eternal handout, that's all.

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You can talk about cutting entitlements all you want - the unsavory fact is that we have, AS A RESULT OF FORCED SLAVERY, a huge underclass with little education, no culture of sucess (unless being a drug dealer counts as sucessful), paltry work ethic, and even an entire different language in many respects (esp. if you include Hispanic immagrants with no passable English).

Slavery was abolished years ago, and the idea that it is affecting current black youth in the us is part romanticism, part melodrama, and part crutch. Unfortunately, black leaders play to this, as it 'sells' better than actual leadership. It's time to let go, and to move on with our lives.

Most hispanics have little trouble learning english within the first few years. Language is always a barrier for 1st generation immigrants.

Thank you for your time,

FranK Russo

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I'm inclined to agree with Frank: slavery really is a romantic, melodramatic crutch.

However, in my case, I don't think that changes the fact that slavery, no matter who is "perpetrating" or "perpetuating" the issues, still has an effect on black people. Very, very few people black people look to as leaders are willing to try to integrate fully, to acknowledge that it is incumbent upon every person (black or white or anything else) to integrate themselves or not and suffer the consequences or reap the rewards of those actions. Many of those leaders try to imply that it is incumbent upon the government to fix things for them, since it allowed them to be so downtrodden in the first place. So black people may be inclined to wait for government intervention, for someone else to help them out.

So I think that while the vestiges of slavery are still with us, it doesn't necessarily mean that somehow the government is responsible to atone for slavery by trying to make it easier for black people. I think the government has a responsibility to provide everyone with an equal opportunity when they are 17-18 years old, and are deciding on what first step they will take in life on their own.

Furthermore, I think it is incumbent upon the government (and we as citizens) to ensure that divisive, anti-integration leadership is discredited, showing it for the self-interested oppression that it is.

To these ends, it is incumbent upon the government to provide all (or as close to all as we can possibly get) of its people with the schooling they need to be in more or less the same academic place as they make their first life's choices. Since many children START at EXTREMELY different levels of intellectual and academic training, I think that those who are worse off at the start (who are most often conveniently grouped in counties/cities) need far greater resources to get to a level that those starting off much more advanced can reach. But ultimately, this has less to do with black or white than it has to do with simple level of education in various geographic locales.

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Ironically, for all the fine ongoing discussion, the thread's issue is a known hoax. And an old one at that. Known as the "IQ by state hoax" and best exposed by Steve Sailer of isteve.com, it was first widely propagated during the 2000 election by a writer of the left-leaning American Dissembl... err, Assembler. A writer who was last known to have attempted to pass off as a joke what he had originally propagandize in all seriousness.

Following is his belated apology for the false chart which he says he "must now wear like a badge of shame and humility.:

http://americanassembler.com/features/iq_state_averages.htm

A note from Bill Well

I'm the one who posted the IQ chart correlating IQ and votes in the 2000 election. As the "humor" contributor, I am the one that tracks down amusing stories or cartoons to post here at the American Assembler.

When I posted this chart I had no idea the ruckus it would cause from both the left, who opposed conjuring up the whole IQ business, and the right, who opposed the supposed stats.

As this has gotten a bit out of hand, I feel, and the editors feel, that I should take responsibility for posting this thing and clarify my reasons and intents about using what is clearly suspect data in the first place.

It was irresponsible of me to post this chart in this format and I apologize to the American Assembler and it's readers for having done so. It was never my intent for anyone to take this seriously and I erred in judgment in not realizing that people would. Even if this chart is not a hoax, as it most probably is, it was inappropriate to post it for it is simply offensive.

I have to say that I did not invent this chart. It's been floating around for years. All I did was dress it up a bit. But I regret posting it and I regret the fallacious distraction it's caused from the real issues presented on this site. And yes, I even apologize to Republicans for implying they are stupid. Some people around here still think there's hope for you all.

I now agree with some readers, and my editors, that, while I thought this would be a bit of amusing banter, it is damaging to the credibility of the Assembler and distracting from the real issues facing our country. My attempt to mock Republicans for voting for George Bush by posting suspect IQ data was not funny or constructive.

It is not the position of the American Assembler that there is any relevance whatsoever to any attempt to correlate intelligence or academic achievement with political leanings.

Once again, please accept my apologies for bad judgment and bad taste...

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A very nice post Nishiki - I have worked as a partner in an advertising and marketing firm, and you people would NOT believe the utter contempt most advertisers feel for their "target audiences." Internally, advertising companies see them as sheep that can be co-oerced into almost anything, as long as they can just get the right emotional appeal, the right touch, the right music...

Thank you , you make good post yourself :) That true that educated people are also *manipulated* by publicity.

After reading the latest post i have one thing that come to my mind. I agree on many comment but only in part to other. But on top of that, i think we should talk about our society value, they are more and more related to money, competition, performance. Those value are right now at their top (i hope), and that do not look good. A professional baseball player is paid milion to play??? A big company president receive million because he successfully cutted expense... by cutting 500 job to give them to under contrator that are paid less or simply replaced them by new technology.

Publicity, music clip, movie etc... are showing us a life of pleasure and facility... scientific advancement that supposedly improve our quality of life and it do but only if your lucky enough to have money and not been born with some disease or had drug abuser as a mother etc... It s great if your born in a environment where your development is promoted but even this case you call fall in drug abuse etc.. just look at how many star did.

But hey!!! we can do better than that, but guess what need to change first... Capitalism and value behind it...what about to focus on human quality of life... over all, and to care about what really exist... human exist, money don t, economy don t. Im not against progress, but what is progress, is it only technology progress??? I don t think so. How hard is it to be born poor in a world of luxury. I can understand why some people act poorly (having a big tv screen when poor etc..) They are bombarded with publicity that make them think they need this brand of cloth or the big tv screen to be *IN* and this kind of (we can call it brainwashing) is very effective since it s start when your a little kid. It s like religion, you learn them when your a kid, your partly *builded* by it.

About education now, ive seen some documentary showing the Japanese education system, and i must say it s horrible. It s only about performance and productivity, kid are so stressed by mother, father, teacher and general social pressure that when they fail a test, they are completely destructed, desperated, some commit suicide for that :(

And the situation of many is not better when they start working, lot are considered like being a robot and are insanely brainwashed at giving their *soul* for the company. In the documentaryi have seen, they interviewed a young adult japanese women, she talking about the bad situation of men, worst than the situation of women in is view, they work with high level of stress for insane level of hour. What about distraction, time for family... time to live??? Im speaking of the worse, you may say, it s not like that everywhere in Japan.... your probably right but it s not only a minority that are in this situation. And other country have started to imitate them, since they need to remain competitive to be good capitalist....

Capitalism is kinda a never ending Wars system builded around money system. How many people died because of this horrible system... millions, how many suffered because of it.... billions... including war made for money related reason....to serve their interest :angry: . Capitalism is not the greatest of system it s not better than communist was. Russia is not better now than they where when they where communist, Mafia and other criminal have raised their activity, more drug more prostitution, violence etc... retired old people that loosed their goverment menetary help after the end of communism, i have also seen that in tv documentary. Some already insufficient social help disapeared with the communism.... and the capitalism did not replace it by something better, just nothing replaced it :(

And im not saying communism was good, i say Capitalism is not really better overal,l in some area it can be better in others it s worse. But strickly about the word, communist is better than Capitalist. Communist refer to community (in common) and Capitalist refer to capital (money, to make money, to have more).

The last but not the least, a tremendous lack of love are behind lot of our human trouble. Im not speaking of love related to 2 person, i speak in general. Lack of love is everwhere, usually money interest go first just see what happen in the world actually. People are ok to spend billions to kill other, but not much to help. One example, a natural disaster occur in a poor country, the country is devasted. Some country help but not with the same amount of money or effort than they do for wars.... because they think they have nothing to gain out of it. Poor X country people are starving to death... bah who care they have nothing interesting.... you see what i mean????? Your not rich, your have nothing im interested at, then i don t care about you.

Here was some of the reason why i don t like capitalism. Id better like a system that is more *in common* that raise the quality of life of all people not make them fight each other for a better life.

Nishiki

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