Defiler

Terrible SCSI performance in Windows XP

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Oh yeah.  The Tekram kit comes with the converter and faceplate.

Yes, but you can't use internal 50-pin devices when you do that. I have (had) both internal and external 50-pin devices.

Laurent: Actually, I'm at a point where it's clear just by copying files that my write performance is awful. I don't even need to use a benchmark to diagnose it.

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Oh yeah.  The Tekram kit comes with the converter and faceplate.

Yes, but you can't use internal 50-pin devices when you do that. I have (had) both internal and external 50-pin devices.

Laurent: Actually, I'm at a point where it's clear just by copying files that my write performance is awful. I don't even need to use a benchmark to diagnose it.

Can't you get a longer 50 pin internal cable, connect your internal drives to it, then hook the end connector into the external bracket adaptor, and continue the chain from there?

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Can't you get a longer 50 pin internal cable, connect your internal drives to it, then hook the end connector into the external bracket adaptor, and continue the chain from there?

Where does the cable you've described plug into the SCSI card? :)

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One end into the 50 pin connector on the Tekram, the other end into the external adaptor.

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I see. I don't think anyone makes a 50-pin cable that long. ;)

I have a very tall case. It would be rough.

Anyway, it's not big deal anymore.. I have an internal DVD-ROM now, so I don't use the external one.

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Defiler, a good idea would be to use a substitute benchmark. I suggest you give a shot to Sandra (yes Sandra) and look at the individual sequential write score . It usually provides very reliable results.

I have now verified the same low write performance results not only in ATTO, but also in IOmeter and Total Copy. And indeed, I can feel the slowness subjectively, too. Apparently, the problem is real.

Leo

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I'll add myself to the list as well. I have the same Write slowness under XP with my Adaptec 39160 and an original X15 and Atlast 10KIII. Definatly some kinda problem.

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How come my writes are almost the same as writes, using an X15, 2940U2W and Windows XP Pro (as seen above). I even still have System Restore switched on (I dunno why, I thought I'd switched it off!).

This trend continues on the Atlas V. The Fireball AS and even the 540X show the same sort of results on the 760's IDE interface.

I have NO problems with write performance.

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Damn. I'm just getting used to WinXP.. Oh well.. We'll see how the Tekram works. I found a "neat" WinXP/Adaptec "feature." You can't just swap in a card in its place.. You have to put the second card in alongside it, boot once, shut down, THEN swap cables.

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leokor: If it's not installation support, it cost $$$, correct?

I've never had to call them before when I wasn't on a site-license support contract.

Anyway, here are my results on the Tekram card. Much better, but still nowhere near as good as the Adaptec card was in Win2k:

atto-tekram.png

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I just would like to mention that i have in some cases a vastly lower performance with Total copy compared to the conventional windows method....

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Anyway i am really beginning to regret that i have bought a SCSi drive. I can't really feel a huge difference over my previous IBM Raid0 array.

Well if it's an XP related problem i sincerely hope it will be fixed soon. Curiously the various SCSI drives produce very good results in the conventional benchmarks used by SR such as IPeak.

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On a second thought the issue *could* deserve further research.

...just in case the SR staff has some spare resources (time) to spend... :P

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I have an Atlas 10K II w/ Adaptec 39160

Latest adaptec drivers, Kt7a

XP Pro, write cache enabled

Sandra scores 15316

Atto averages write 40,000 Read 10,500

Poopy :(

anyone have a

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After running Sandra, I read the report that followed.

It mentioned that I would disable write verify. I understand what write verify is and why it would slow down the drive, however.......

how do I disable it?

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With write verify enabled you will write rather than read slower (your results show the contrary; did you revert the scores ?).

I did not even know that the various manufacturer would add this feature directly as a firmware implementation. I knew that Maxtor did it but usually their drives will disable write verify on their own after several power on cycles. Well, after all when it's possible to set this up temporarily it can also be made permanent. In case other manufacturer do it i fear i zapped over that....

I wonder if the IBM feature tool would help you out although write verify does not seem to be listed on that page:

http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/support/download.htm

Maxtor disttributes "vfset" in that respect.

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Think I may have found an answer for some people.

Those of you experiencing problems... is the chipset on your mobo Via?

check this out:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/23502.html

http://thetechnozone.com/pcbuyersguide/har...A-Problems.html

http://www.pclincs.co.uk/cgi-bin/ikonboard...rum=12&topic=37

I LOVE this part

"With VIA boards, this high speed transfer from the cache of a hard drive is

constantly interrupted within a couple of µs. It has then to be

re-initiated... Therefore, the effective burst rate drops to 64 to 90

MBytes/s at best... In contrast to chipsets from Intel, SiS and ALi VIA's

products seem to have difficulties with maintaining high transfer rates

close to the maximum speed of PCI for a longer time. As with ATA/133 PCI has

a theoretical maximum bandwidth of 127,2. It seems fair to conclude that

VIAs implementation of a PCI bus must be the reason for the problems found."

Via also underperforms when it comes to SCSI. Systems set up with Intel 845

and Via P4X266A, plus an Adaptec RAID-2100S, showed performance around 30

per cent better for the Intel system. Longer bursts used by the Intel system

result in much better performance. So if you buy a high performance

controller then put it in a board via a Via chipset, right now you're

probably wasting your money.

There is an unofficial patch produced by George Breese of Networking Resources available here (use at your own risk)

http://download.viahardware.com/vlatency_v019.zip

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In Win2K, I got totally fine performance on a Via board with this SCSI card.

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Oh and by the way, i have got totally fine performance under ME myself with my setup. The problem also just occurs in XP which is the case for many others i fear.

It would be really appreciated if SR could deviate temprorily from regular HD reviews. If there is indeed a performance problem, well, it's a scoop.

Something for real adventurers if you ask me :P

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I bought a system to make a video editing system consisting of:

Asus a7n 266e MB Rev 1.3

512mb x 2 kingmax DDR RAM

AMD 1800+ XP

3 Maxtor 40 Gig hard Drives D740X 6L040J2

ThermalTake Volcano 7 cpu fan

case w/4 case fans 350W amd ps

HP dvd 100i

sony cdrom

3.5 floppy

Iwill Side Raid 100

Pinnacle DV500+ video editing card

Windows XP PRO

I assembled all the MB in the case, with 1 maxtor connected to the MB secondary master, and the hp dvd 100i on Primary master and sony cdrom on Primary slave. I booted up, and installed XP without a single hang or error. I then installed a 56k modem and updated and activated windows.

I downloaded the latest revisions of bios for the MB (1001.B) (at the time 2/14/2002) and found new drivers for all the hardware. Meanwhile, I set the video to 1024.x768 16 bit 85hz and changed the windows theme to performance and turned of some unnecessary services. Used tips and tweaks from video guys

http://www.videoguys.com/WinXP.html

I installed the rest of the hardware Iwill Raid slot4 pci, Pinnacle dv500 slot 3 pci and rebooted windows. Still no hangs or problems. And the system seemed blazing fast. Got premiere 6.01 installed and the dv500 plus software. I Configured the Raid to Raid 0 with 64k stripe and formatted the 2 drives (each on master of each raid channel) with ntfs 64k block size.

Now the problems started.

I could not capture video to the raid system without dropping 1/3 of the frames. I used the Dvexpert utility that came with DV500+ to test the raid system. I was getting 2.84 MB/s write speed average for a 100MB test file. The read speed was about 80 MB/s . I tested the c: drive connected to the onboard controller, and got about 25 MB/s write speed and 35mb/s read speed.

Consequently, I updated the Iwill controller drivers and software from the Highpoint website to ver. 2.31 and still no difference. I tweaked the memory timing to 2.0 turbo and back to default. I disabled the onboard LAN, Sound, and USB hub also moved the cards to different slots with still no difference. In all of this I had to call and reactivate windows. I downloaded Powermax from the maxtor website and checked all the drives. Powermax gave a good report on the drives, and I checked to make sure write verify was off. I moved the DDR ram to different Banks to no avail

At this point, I just tried to capture a video to the C:drive... 740 x 480 ntsc 29.97 fps and 30 minutes later I had not dropped a single frame. I stopped the capture, and tried to play back to the DV500+, guess what: 1/3 of the frames dropped when trying to play back to the dv500.

Sensing some type of conflict, I removed the DV500 and retested the Raid. Still 2.84 MB/s. I went into bios and started tweaking the frequencies down from 133/266 but the write speed stayed around 2.84MB/s however the onboard ide and Raid read speed would slow down. The onboard IDE functioned just fine.

At this point, I ripped out the modem and still about 2.84 MB/s.

Ok, I get on the phone with Asus tech support and the technician tells me I should not be trying to edit with a AMD based system. He says they only meant for it to be a gaming system and that 2.84MB/s doesn't seem to be out of line for the PCI bus. He tells me to check for windows drivers and that as far as he is concerned it can't be a MB problem.

I call Mwave where I ordered the MB and they asked me to reinstall windows, and gave some more suggestions such as checking cables, voltages etc. I Reinstalled windows (with yet again sitting on the phone with MS waiting for a 46 digit activation code) and checked everything. Still all I had was approx 2.84 MB/s write speed to the Raid 0 array of 2 40 gig D740X drives.

Mwave gave me an RMA for the Asus and shipped me a K7N 420 Pro MSI.

I installed the msi with the hp dvd 100i to the onboard IDE primary master and sony cdrom to onboard primary slave. A maxtor D740X was installed on the Secondary master with no secondary slave. I installed the Iwill Raid in pci slot 4 with each D740X on its own channel master.

When I booted from the WIN XP cd and hit F6 to install raid drivers, I installed the updated v2.31 and got a crash for invalid scsi drivers. I merely rebooted and let the install run with the win XP drivers. WinXP installed and came up. I configured the display to 1024x768 16bit and 85hz and installed the updated Iwill Raid drivers. Shut down and Windows hangs on restart at the starting windows screen. Reset and boot to last known good configuration. Try to install the raid configuration software, and it goes fine but when I try to configure I get Configuration failed message. Shutdown restart and hit (control H) and there is the configuration just fine. Try to continue booting, but hangs on starting windows screen. Reset, do (control H) delete the raid, start windows to last known good. Enter disk management initialize the raid drives individually with ntfs quick format 64k block. Shut down restart (control h) add raid 64 k stripe and it boots up.

I shut down and install modem. Fired up and changed the bios to 133/266/66 timing and it boots. I downloaded the latest bios for msi (6.00 pg) and got the latest drivers from nvidia site. I installed the drivers and shutdown and loaded the new bios. The Beast booted. I install the 2.31 driver for the raid card and shutdown restart. It hangs on starting windows. Shutdown restart last known good. It boots. I put in cd with Dvexpert on it and test raid – about 3 mb/s write speed and 30 MB/s read... I test the onboard IDE c: drive and get about 20 MB/s write and 35MB/s read.

I decide to play with the MB frequency and with 100/200/66 CPU/MEM/AGP timing I get about 15 MB/s write speed to the raid with a 35 MB/s read speed. I decide to go get another raid card and try that.

I get a 1200A adaptec from CompUSA and install it.... exactly the same results.

Both the Iwill and 1200A adaptec have Highpoint 370A chips. Both motherboards that I have tried have Nvidia chipsets. I have not been able to install another OS yet, to try that, but I am going to buy another motherboard today with probably a via chipset and try that. I thought maybe the Dvexpert test software was the problem, so I did a drag and drop test from the C: drive to the Raid and it took roughly 30 seconds to transfer an 85MB folder.

It seems to me that there is a major problem with either WIN XP pro/ Highpoint raid drivers/ Nvidia chipset drivers/ Nvidia chipset design/ or bios.

Performance from the peripherals into the system over the PCI bus is blazing especially with the ASUS. But I never edited the registry and tuned the system for performance with the MSI. I never had the 1st hang or error with the asus board, I am just frustrated with the Raid Write Issue.

At this point I gave up on getting pci bandwidth to work with the nforce chipset.

I went and bought a msi k7t 266a and an xtasy 5864 geoforce2.

came home, put my original side raid 100 in with mem and cpu and fan.

booted up... and accidently booted from the HD (I was going to reinstall xp clean and forgot to set cd boot in bios) ... guess what?

it came up fine, for once I did not need to activate the Win xp pro even though I had changed the MB out and put in new vid card and raid card.

my old raid was still there even and ready to rock even though it was set up with an adaptec 1200A. I put my dv500+ cd in and fired up DVexpert. 40MB/s write and 45 MB/s read for a 500MB test file..... YES finally after three weeks, two nvidia MB's, two raid cards, and countless hours.... it works, but not with nforce.

with DVexpert on the single c: drive, I get about 25MB/s write and 30 MB/s read.

I could not get the 128k or bigger stripe size to work, or get any of the drivers (that I tried 2.31) for the highpoint raid to work, but the default winxp is fine.

installed the rest of my goodies, (DV500+, 56k modem, and software) and set about to capture and play video (720x480 ntsc 29.97fps millions color depth).... no problems, no dropped frames..... getting the modem to work was more trouble than anything... had to pick driver manually.

I have not upgraded the bios, or used any pci tweaking utilities it basically came out of the box flying. bought my stuff at Comp USA, and I would like to thank them for support in taking back my test 1200A raid card. MWave was really good in getting me out another MB to try too.

I still have both the MSI k7n420 d and the asus A7n266e and am interested in finding a solution.

Links to other forum threads:

http://cweb.msi.com.tw/eforum/index...ticle&tid=11592

http://cweb.msi.com.tw/eforum/index...ticle&tid=12551

http://cweb.msi.com.tw/eforum/index...ticle&tid=13065

http://www.community.tomshardware.com/comm...=collapsed&sb=5

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