Fuzzy

Rounded IDE cables

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flat cables are more flexible, easy to plug, unplug. Less bulky, lighter ... Also, they are very sturdy at the connector points, because all the wires are stuck to each other, and you can pull the whole thing safely.

No you can't! I mean you can, but then you have to say things like this:

And yes, also you can easily check if there is a damaged wire.

You should never, ever disconnect a connector by pulling on its associated cable. Not on an AC power cord and certainly not on an IDE cable -- flat or round.

--Rick

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If you're so keen on having small cables, why don't you just go SATA?

Well think yourself if u have UltraATA hdd and old mobo with no build in SATA controller then it will cost you new drive + controller to go SATA.

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Also about how hard or easy is to plug unplug cable, rounded or not.

I see no difference in rounded and not rounded cable plug.

long_ide_cable.jpg

rounded_floppy_cable_red.gif

But if it has pulltab like this one its very easy to unplug with no possible damage to cabble.

utc-f18b.jpg

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@rfarris:

You should never, ever disconnect a connector by pulling on its associated cable. Not on an AC power cord and certainly not on an IDE cable -- flat or round.

well, my flat IDE cables doesn't have pulltabs at the connectors, so the only fast way to unplug them is pulling the cable. It would be better to grab the connector itself, but it is very difficult if not impossible.

Thankfully the flat cables are very strong at the connector point, and I don't think they can easily be damaged there.

@z_unit:

Also about how hard or easy is to plug unplug cable, rounded or not.

I see no difference in rounded and not rounded cable plug.

Have you tried one of these cables by yourself?

well, I can clearly see the difference: there is a big piece of rubber at each connector. Even more, at the middle connector (slave) there are 2 of these rubber pieces. These pieces cover a whole mess of individual wires. Also it is very difficult to force the whole thing into a compact position, because everything is fat and loose, and elastic.

you can easily bend a flat cable and force it to stay where you want.

The shape will stay. At the connector points, you can bend the cable to align it with the connector, and the result is very very compact.

This is not the case with rounded cables.

This problem is particularly acute at the mobo connectors, where you usually have two connectors side by side.

IMO these rounded cables is a silly way to burn money. Like many other silly modding stuff.

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well, my flat IDE cables doesn't have pulltabs at the connectors, so the only fast way to unplug them is pulling the cable. It would be better to grab the connector itself, but it is very difficult if not impossible.

I usually use flat screwdriver and it works just fine u never think about it?

Thankfully the flat cables are very strong at the connector point, and I don't think they can easily be damaged there.

I see no difference with flat ones except they splited after 1 cm so it must be same strong. However i would not pull for cable anyway not on flated ones to.

6.jpg

well, I can clearly see the difference: there is a big piece of rubber at each connector. Even more, at the middle connector (slave) there are 2 of these rubber pieces. These pieces cover a whole mess of individual wires.

Well i actually point at connectors between flat and rounded cables themselves but someone has edited my post and removed pic.

So i see no difference unless u think its not safe to pull off rounded cable by cord which is unsafe with any kind of cable.

Also it is very difficult to force the whole thing into a compact position

Whatever u mean by this.

you can easily bend a flat cable and force it to stay where you want.

The shape will stay. At the connector points, you can bend the cable to align it with the connector, and the result is very very compact.

This is not the case with rounded cables.

Would you stop nitpicking if u dotn like rounded its ok just dont say they bad because they pull of wrhorser than flat ones.

Give a better point.

IMO these rounded cables is a silly way to burn money. Like many other silly modding stuff.

I hate modding myself, but i look @ flat cables as way to improve airflow and it dont take at much place under case which is better to only thing is that its may be not safe to use cheap rounded cables because of reliability.

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I know this is now a REALLY old topic but let me add my $.02 also...

I used to work for WD tech support (before they laid us all off and contracted it out to cheap foreign HS dropouts - yes I'm bitter...) and we would occasionally get calls about these types of things.

One of the more interesting scenarios is that if Windows XP detects that there's repeated data problems with the cable, i.e. crosstalk causing errors with a round cable, or even an inferior flat cable, or crappy removable drive cases, it will drop the speed of the drive temporarily to try to alleviate the problem.

The problem comes that apparently if it has too many errors like this, it will drop the speed the drive is allowed to operate it and AFAIK we never found a way to get XP to bump it back up again. So we'd get people calling in with round IDE cables and complain that their drives were operating very very slowly. We have them check device manager and properties for the controller and - Wha La! - the port in question is operating at PIO4. All other settings check out, but the drive is now forced to operate back at PIO mode because of too many data errors over time. No, don't ask me what the exact number of errors needed to determine this is, we never figured that out either.

Anyway that's my take on it, from real live tech support experience. That's the principal reason of why I don't reccommend rounded IDE cables any more to anyone.

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One of the more interesting scenarios is that if Windows XP detects that there's repeated data problems with the cable, i.e. crosstalk causing errors with a round cable, or even an inferior flat cable, or crappy removable drive cases, it will drop the speed of the drive temporarily to try to alleviate the problem. 

How on earth can windows xp tell if there is crosstalk on the cables :huh: ?

Did you tell the customers to replace the round cable with a flat cable, or did you do this yourself to see if these supposed error's went away?

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My personal experience is of all the round ide cable I have purchased, 1/3 went to the can. Some of them would seem to be working ok for the first few months, then the PIO4, random lockups... etc. I usually buy the expensive stuff...

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How on earth can windows xp tell if there is crosstalk on the cables  :huh: ?

Sorry, I wasn't implying that WinXP could tell specifically if there's crosstalk on the cables. WinXP just sees the results of poor/faulty cables, i.e. data errors, too many transmission faults, etc. I was more listing crosstalk as a type of cable problem that can can cause those types of errors.

Did you tell the customers to replace the round cable with a flat cable, or did you do this yourself to see if these supposed error's went away?

The testing for this was done multiple places, both in multiple in-house labs and externally through by partner companies. I believe a lot of the data for this particular problem was gotten from talking with people at Promise, who did more of that type of testing than we did since their controllers were routinely pushing the transmission limits of the cables/specs.

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@z-unit:

I usually use flat screwdriver and it works just fine u never think about it?

No, I have never tried to use a screwdriver. Now I have just tried and I don't see how can I use it without causing more damages than I intend to avoid.

I see no difference with flat ones except they splited after 1 cm so it must be same strong.

The rounded cables I have, they are splitted from the beginning:

WEAKWIRING.jpg

Would you stop nitpicking if u dotn like rounded its ok just dont say they bad because they pull of wrhorser than flat ones.

Give a better point.

No, I am not going to stop nitpicking. My points are very good already.

But here are more points:

BULKY-MOBO.jpg

BULKY-SLAVE.jpg

Do you need more points to understand? geez!

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This isn't a fair representation for ALL rounded cables just like that isnt a fair representation for ALL flat cables :P

You could have simply picked the BEST flat cable to put in that picture and the WORST round cable ever made in the example pic.

Can someone show us the BEST ROUND cable every produced and match that up with the BEST flat cable ever produced?

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Also it seems like you are holding the round cable closer to the lense of your camera which would naturally exagerrate the thickness of the cable.

Im not by any means agreeing nor dissagreeing with you. I am just trying to get a fair representation of both items so we can make a good comparison, not a biased one ;)

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On closer examination it actually seems that the two connectors are exactly the same height , the black seems longer on one than the other, and the grey on the other one is longer also, but they are both equal in height. I cant tell if they are equal in width from that picture but , I have no doubt that the have equal width because they have to fit into the same exact width on the hard drive :P

So from these pictures you are actually proving that they are both the exact same height and width.

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How can you tell those wires are weak? Ive tugged on many a round cable very hard, without breakage of those supposedly "weak" wires. What exactly makes those weak wires?

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You could have simply picked the BEST flat cable to put in that picture and the WORST round cable ever made in the example pic.

YEAH, YOU GOT ME, I HAVE TAKEN THE BEST FLAT CABLE EVER MANUFACTURED AND I HAVE PUT IT AGAINST THE WORST ROUND CABLE. JUST TO PROVE MY POINT.

On closer examination it actually seems that the two connectors are exactly the same height , the black seems longer on one than the other, and the grey on the other one is longer also, but they are both equal in height. I cant tell if they are equal in width from that picture but , I have no doubt that the have equal width because they have to fit into the same exact width on the hard drive

So from these pictures you are actually proving that they are both the exact same height and width. 

I am getting tired of this thread.

Of course the connectors are the same size, but the rubber covers make the whole think bulkier!!! can't you see the photo!!

How can you tell those wires are weak? Ive tugged on many a round cable very hard, without breakage of those supposedly "weak" wires. What exactly makes those weak wires?

when all the wires are stuck together in a flat cable, the forces spread evenly between them...

bah, forget it, just forget it.

do you like round cables, ok, buy round cables.

Also it seems like you are holding the round cable closer to the lense of your camera which would naturally exagerrate the thickness of the cable.

in one photo, yes, it is closer. in the other photo is not.

it is difficult to take such photo. with one hand, you hold the camera, with the other, both cables, and you must stay close to the lamp so that everything is well lit.

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LOL! im laughing my ass off real hard right now at your first comment :).

I see what your saying about it being bulky now. Your referring to those boots that cover the end of the cables. You can get ones that are much less bulky then that ;). Do you have any silver cables with the clear boots on the ends? Those are less bulky.

I also see what your talking about with the wires. Ive tugged on mine very hard without breaking them, so I dont see that to be a really being a problem ;).

Thats just my two cents on it. You are 100% correct with your statements, now that you explained them more clearly ;). However, I dont see them as a big problem thats all B)

Garrett

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The single IDE short round silver cables that I use dont even have boots(also this shows a floppy cable that has the clear boot I was referring to):

silver_cable.jpg

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@gbb:

I am glad you understand what I say.

I see in your photo, the SCSI rounded cables have no "boots", and, besides, you have the connectors in the mobo arranged "in series", not "in parallel".

When they are in paralell, side by side, the boots are very unconvenient.

Also, you talk about "single IDE short round cables". Do you mean, single disc cables, isn't it? (no master-slave)

Then, in these you don't have a slave connector (with 2 boots!!)

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Also, you talk about "single IDE short round cables". Do you mean, single disc cables, isn't it? (no master-slave)

Yes you are correct. Single IDE short cables are only like 8 inches long and only contain one master IDE connector. No slave connection.

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Yes you are correct. Single IDE short cables are only like 8 inches long and only contain one master IDE connector. No slave connection.

yes, they will be easier to handle.

----

I have just noticed that your SCSI cables are not connected to the mobo, but to a controller card's edge. Being connected to the edge of the card, and being arranged "in series", make them much easier to plug and unplug.

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@rfarris:
You should never, ever disconnect a connector by pulling on its associated cable. Not on an AC power cord and certainly not on an IDE cable -- flat or round.

well, my flat IDE cables doesn't have pulltabs at the connectors, so the only fast way to unplug them is pulling the cable. It would be better to grab the connector itself, but it is very difficult if not impossible.

I take it you don't have the tool for removing flat-cable connectors. You should never, ever disconnect a connector by pulling on its associated cable.

Thankfully the flat cables are very strong at the connector point, and I don't think they can easily be damaged there.

So then why is it you are so acquainted with detecting damaged cables? :-)

-- Rick

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Let's throw in a fairly old document proposed to the ATA/ATAPI working group back in October 2000...

Proposed ATA/ATAPI 80-Conductor Cable Length Extension.

Note that this proposal was never actually approved and made a part of the specification. Still, it's one of the few tests I've ever seen done on the matter. To clarify further (vs. the topic of this thread) it is for flat ribbon cables and not rounded cables.

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