Clevor

Wd Really Going Downhill

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I suggest Everyone that buys a Western Digital Drive to boycott them.. I bought a 250 gig drive like 10 month ago, and the drive died, like bad sectors and the whole bunch, they wont take it back it didnt have a warranty on it after i check on their website and plus they are refusing to respond to my email, maxtor however have been kind enough to replace any drive ive sent them within the 1 year, but western digital has yet to honor any replacement..

so lets all boycott WESTERN DIGITAL!!!

BOYCOTT BOYCOTT!! BURN BABY! BURN!!!

ARCADIAN

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I suggest Everyone that buys a Western Digital Drive to boycott them.. I bought a 250 gig drive like 10 month ago, and the drive died, like bad sectors and the whole bunch, they wont take it back it didnt have a warranty on it after i check on their website and plus they are refusing to respond to my email, maxtor however have been kind enough to replace any drive ive sent them within the 1 year, but western digital has yet to honor any replacement..

so lets all boycott WESTERN DIGITAL!!!

BOYCOTT BOYCOTT!! BURN BABY! BURN!!!

ARCADIAN

I don't think he likes Western Digital.

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Oh my god, that is such Bull. Maxtor has over 10%? ... <_< ...  :huh:  ... <_< ...  :huh:  ...

I can completely believe that. Maxtor is worse one of the bunch. I know I spent a month doing some parttime work for huge oem builder and almost all of the hard drive failures were Maxtor.

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I suggest Everyone that buys a Western Digital Drive to boycott them.. I bought a 250 gig drive like 10 month ago, and the drive died, like bad sectors and the whole bunch, they wont take it back it didnt have a warranty on it after i check on their website and plus they are refusing to respond to my email, maxtor however have been kind enough to replace any drive ive sent them within the 1 year, but western digital has yet to honor any replacement..

so lets all boycott WESTERN DIGITAL!!!

BOYCOTT BOYCOTT!! BURN BABY! BURN!!!

ARCADIAN

Why is the drive out of warranty? Did you call WD for an explanation?

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Ive had trouble with WD warranty too... "Drive out of region - return it to the reseller" they wont honour the warranty at all... zip nadda go away... 2 250GB sata drives, kinda hurts...

The shop has switch all new purchases to seagate. 5 year warranty, ya know... I ordered 40 400GB drives this morning...

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maxtor drives are terrible. slow, not quiet, and unreliable. dell is replacing hundreds, if not thousands of maxtors with seagates. the company i work for had me talk dell subcontracted techs threw backup, replace, restore for each drive. it was well over 100. they just started failing, one after another, til we finally convinced dell to replace them all, before they fail. on /. others have told the same story.

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I never really had anything against WD until recently. By the same token I wasn't much of a fan either, but this recent experienced completely turned me off from ever buying another WD product in the future.

Back in 2001 I bought an 18 GB scsi drive. The drive came with a 5 yr warranty (good until sometime in mid 2005).

2 Months ago, the drive started behaving strangely, not posting at the scsi scan cycle during boot, etc. Basically dieing. I was able to do retrieve my data, then called WD for a RMA.

The lovely gentleman on the other end said they have no drives to replace this with. He'd be glad to send out two 9 GB drives with similar specifications. He also offered to replace it with a 80 GB ide drive.

I was furious. I told him that this drive is an enterprise level device, and an IDE replacement is unacceptable (even if it is more than 4x the capacity). The drive is going into a scsi enclosure, which can only accomodate 4 drives, not 5 (9 x 2).

I asked what other options exist. After an extended time on hold, he came back said they could refund a certain dollar amount.

I paid big bucks for this scsi drive back in 2001, and I expected the warranty to be honored. Ultimately, I sent the drive back for the refund check and decided to never deal with WD again.

I should note, this refund check took nearly 3 months to recieve.. Worse than a rebate.

Ultimately I'm satisfied with the rma in that i was able to turn around and buy a similar drive from hitachi (of scsi flavor) on ebay that still had a good amount of warranty left.

I guess when WD got out of scsi, I should of gotten rid of all my WD scsi drives.

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^^^ WD stopped making SCSI drives about 4 years ago. Are they supposed to keep enough obsolete models on hand to replace all sold product? While I understand your frustration, I think this is much ado about nothing. They offered 3 possible alternatives which all seem pretty fair. How much was the settlement? 18GB 10K scsi drives can be bought for under $50.

Note: I'm not affiliated with WD. I just think your criticism is a bit unfair.

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^^^ WD stopped making SCSI drives about 4 years ago.  Are they supposed to keep enough obsolete models on hand to replace all sold product? While I understand your frustration, I think this is much ado about nothing.  They offered 3 possible alternatives which all seem pretty fair.  How much was the settlement?  18GB 10K scsi drives can be bought for under $50. 

Note: I'm not affiliated with WD. I just think your criticism is a bit unfair.

Ditto.

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Guys, harddrive nowadays are not as easy to make as back in the days. There are many things that it can go wrong with the design.

Most people here claim WD, Maxtor, and IBM/Hitachi are not as reliable as other, but you forgot to mention which model of their drives that have problem. From what I know, ALL BRAND HAVE THEIR GOOD AND BAD TIME AND MODEL:

Maxtor: DiamonMax 8 (problem in fly height adjustment that cause a lot of problem, their 20,30,40,60,80Gb) is their only recent reliability problem. They are now fixed but their reputation has been greatly damaged by this (Dell drop their OEM deal and they need to recertify, with 2500 hr testing instead of 1000 hr).

WD: They were using the older thin film head and rely on fly height to get equivalent in terms of capacity, then at one model they screw up and have up to 65% on recall (I forgot which model). Painful lession learned and they are now doing better than before. Their early batch of FDB drive are also having some problem.

Seagate: When they merge with Conner they had a fair share of problem in the drives produced in the Conner facility. They also had problems with their early FDB drives.

IBM/Hitachi: Enough said, their 60GXP and 75GXP. Glass media with head constantly park on top of the same place causing crashes. Glass media also causes much static that once a crash happen then it is game over for the head.

Toshiba: Their 2.5" drives are crap, period, I have never seen one that works reliabily and it seems like they are the only one using it in their own laptop. :angry:

What many people forgot to mention is where you get your drive from. Sometimes manufacture sell reworked drives to places like Fry's and small stores. Reworks means they disable a big section of the media or disable a bad head, and sell it as a smaller model. These drives are in general less reliable and they are usually handled poorly in a less trained staff. OEM drives sold in tray also have worse packaging as they are ment to be used instantly as they are unpacked.

For those reason I recommend people always get retail drives from a big chain store like Staple, Office Depot, Best Buy, CompUSA, etc because they have more bitching power that the manufacture pay more attention so they get the "good" ones.

How do I know all this? I work in a major manufacture.

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Also, nowadays EVERY DRIVE HAS BAD SECTOR. To make such a high density drive every one is heavily relying on ECC (error correction) and spare sector/track to relocate all the problems. It is not uncommon to see a lower single digit of your spaces are reserved as spare sectors. The drives will spent its idle time scanning bad sectors for you and thats why there is really no point in doing scan disk much anymore, using a SMART tool is a better indicator of drive health. If you see a bad sector appearing on your partition, you are already used up your spare sectors and that means it is really starting to go bad.

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I had an OEM wd400bb that was very warm after formatting and OS install.

The drive refused to boot after it cooled down.

I emailed WD asking for a replacement even though the drive seemed fine after I kept it cool for the OS reinstall. At first they refused until I told them about their 4 other drives that went belly up.

I got a marketing manager's name and toll free number, after a pleasent 5 minute conversation, he sent a NEW 80gig drive via UPS in less than a week.

This summer I ordered a 2 Pair of WD740gd raptors and a single raptor drive. The single drive arrived in a box with the corner smashed in and the drive pushed out of the foam packing.

WD advised not to install the drive and send it back to the vendor or send it to them for recertification or replacement. I was told that testing of standard IDE drives takes 24 hours but the raptors are tested for over 48 hours.

I returned it to the vendor, but I bet they just sent it to another customer.

Overall I have had good experience with WD replacements and customer service.

Photoz

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IBM/Hitachi: Enough said, their 60GXP and 75GXP. Glass media with head constantly park on top of the same place causing crashes. Glass media also causes much static that once a crash happen then it is game over for the head.

Eh? Those drives used rampload, so the heads never "park" on the media. They park on the ramps.

Reworks means they disable a big section of the media or disable a bad head, and sell it as a smaller model. These drives are in general less reliable and they are usually handled poorly in a less trained staff. OEM drives sold in tray also have worse packaging as they are ment to be used instantly as they are unpacked.

Yes and no. Rework can mean:

1. Quick burn-in check, then sent out if it passes.

2. Part of the capacity is disabled (bad head).

3. Mechanical rework/repair.

For those reason I recommend people always get retail drives from a big chain store like Staple, Office Depot, Best Buy, CompUSA, etc because they have more bitching power that the manufacture pay more attention so they get the "good" ones.

How do I know all this? I work in a major manufacture.

The cream of the crop *usually* goes the best customers, like the Dells and HP's of the world, because they buy enough volume to demand certain quality levels. Many only accept prime drives. Any drives that are also-rans (which may function just fine) are relegated to second-tier customers and/or retail and distribution.

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Just to put things into perspective, WD prints that their AFR is .8%, which if multiplied by 4 million drives per quarter (they manufacture more now, but that was my last figure), you're looking at 32,000 drives failing in a three month period.  The fact that you got a few of them doesn't surprise me -- so goes the world of ATA drives.  This is the average failure rate for the top three ATA contenders (Maxtor, Seagate, and WD).  It just hurts more when it is your drive and your data.  I hope this experience underscores the importance of backing up data, regardless of who makes the drive.

If it were really .8% AFR, then the odds of Clevor getting 4/5 bad drives would be 0.000000004063232 or 124/30,517,578,125. He would be over a dozen times more likely to win the California lottery! :lol: No, I don't think so. 10%+ is more likely.

All hard drive manufacturers are bound to have some bad drives. I've never used a WD, but I'm sure they are not much worse than the rest.

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Just to put things into perspective, WD prints that their AFR is .8%, which if multiplied by 4 million drives per quarter (they manufacture more now, but that was my last figure), you're looking at 32,000 drives failing in a three month period.  The fact that you got a few of them doesn't surprise me -- so goes the world of ATA drives.  This is the average failure rate for the top three ATA contenders (Maxtor, Seagate, and WD).  It just hurts more when it is your drive and your data.  I hope this experience underscores the importance of backing up data, regardless of who makes the drive.

If it were really .8% AFR, then the odds of Clevor getting 4/5 bad drives would be 0.000000004063232 or 124/30,517,578,125. He would be over a dozen times more likely to win the California lottery! :lol: No, I don't think so. 10%+ is more likely.

All hard drive manufacturers are bound to have some bad drives. I've never used a WD, but I'm sure they are not much worse than the rest.

Yet someone else has hundreds of drives without a failure? Your logic is incorrect. You are assuming that each drive has been treated and handled identically. But that does not happen. From the shipper, through the distribution channel and down to the end user, drives are often abused, causing most hard disk drive failures. Sorry, at a 10% failure rate, drive manufactures could not stay in business with the extremely low profit margin that exists.

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The cream of the crop *usually* goes the best customers, like the Dells and HP's of the world, because they buy enough volume to demand certain quality levels. Many only accept prime drives. Any drives that are also-rans (which may function just fine) are relegated to second-tier customers and/or retail and distribution.

Yes, most people don't realize that the cream of the crop does not make it into retail.

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Oh, and just as a correction or update, Western Digital shipped 14.2 million drives for the quarter ending October 1, 2004. Seagate shipped 21.6 million units during that same quarter. If 0.8% of WD's drives failed for that quarter, that would average roughly 1,260 drives per day! That is an awful lot of drives. The fact that someone buys 20 and 19 fail, is not terribly odd once you look at the bigger picture.

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I think any "total drives shipped" number given in a financial report must exclude replacement drives, since you can't count the profit from them twice. I think the average selling price per drive is calculated from gross profit divided by total drives shipped.

Personally, I'd expect drive failures to cluster rather than be truly random. If someone drops a box of drives, that may kill all of them (and if one customer receives the entire box, it'll look like 100% failure to him). Or, if the factory received a bad batch of parts, say with latent defects or something, you could have a cluster of bad drives show up.

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^^^ WD stopped making SCSI drives about 4 years ago.  Are they supposed to keep enough obsolete models on hand to replace all sold product? While I understand your frustration, I think this is much ado about nothing.  They offered 3 possible alternatives which all seem pretty fair.  How much was the settlement?  18GB 10K scsi drives can be bought for under $50. 

Jeff Poulin,

I ended up taking the cash settlment... $80. What really upset me was the fact that I had to wait nearly 3 months for them to complete their 'processing' of this rma. A company as large as WD should be able to get this done in a matter of weeks, not months.

In addition, I had to pull teeth to request a cash settlement. It was offered by one of their mgr's. Probably to get me out of his hair.

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I think any "total drives shipped" number given in a financial report must exclude replacement drives, since you can't count the profit from them twice. I think the average selling price per drive is calculated from gross profit divided by total drives shipped.

You've got it wrong. It's profit divided by total drives shipped. If they have to send out a replacement for a drive, they've made less money. Average selling price is determined by averaging the selling prices.

Personally, I'd expect drive failures to cluster rather than be truly random.

Clustering does not imply nonrandom. A random distribution is likely to have some clusters of event.

Or, if the factory received a bad batch of parts, say with latent defects or something, you could have a cluster of bad drives show up.

That's a quality control issue. Drives made with such parts should never be sold.

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^^^ WD stopped making SCSI drives about 4 years ago.  Are they supposed to keep enough obsolete models on hand to replace all sold product? While I understand your frustration, I think this is much ado about nothing.  They offered 3 possible alternatives which all seem pretty fair.  How much was the settlement?  18GB 10K scsi drives can be bought for under $50. 

Jeff Poulin,

I ended up taking the cash settlment... $80. What really upset me was the fact that I had to wait nearly 3 months for them to complete their 'processing' of this rma. A company as large as WD should be able to get this done in a matter of weeks, not months.

In addition, I had to pull teeth to request a cash settlement. It was offered by one of their mgr's. Probably to get me out of his hair.

Thanks for the info. It's too bad it took so long, but large companies are often notoriously slow at these things. I once returned a dead 120GXP drive back to Hitachi and it took two months(!) to get a replacement (and what I got was a "serviceable used part" :(). In a more unrelated note, I once did contract work for Intel and it took about 3 months to get paid (and this was for a very small amount... under $500).

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Yeah, I think that sucks to, you pay for a drive that has 36 months of warr, and it burns up in 1 month, you get a "referbished" drive that was a warrentee for 3-6 months or whatever. Sucks. I really don't think any single person can know which is more reliable. Everyone here has read a person saying "I bought ten harddrives from XXXXXXX company and they all went bad within 1 week, I switch to YYYYYYYYYY company and never had a single problem, thus I have ***P*R*O*V*E*D***** irrevocably which HDD is best... I bet each company keep's those numbers pretty tightly held.

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Lies, dammed lies and statistics.

I've always had a higher percentage of WD disks fail than other makes. In fact only my Fujitsu drives haven't given problems, but I only have a couple of these.

Over the last two years I've become a great fan of Seagate drives in tight ATA or SATA arrays (especially the 120Gb drives which ran cooler and quieter) and up to a month ago hadn't had a single failure.

It's now 12:20 AM and the last array just rebuilt properly, having lost 3 Seagate drives on three different arrays in 3 weeks. (the warmth of a rebuilding array is useful in a freezing computer room).

For the un-iniated - GET HOT SWAP - they ALL FAIL. :angry:

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