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Pakistan Pardons Nuke Scientist Who Sold Secrets

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i think that is a gross exaggeration, based on my experience playing rts games.
Very scientific. ;)

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I don't think you are seriously reacting to my posts.

you think wrong, and that is not a valid justification.

Anyone can understand why I grouped the US, Canada, and Australia together.

clearly 'anyone' cannot, because i did not.

They are the most important three countries in the New World.

i think i'd disagree on just about any definition, but what is your definition of the 'new world'? economic?

I'm not sure how civil you have been to me personally.

how can you be unsure? you can review the posts.

I apologize in case you were better than to be regarded as someone unable to understand what I say, but it was too much.

honest apologies do not include the word 'but'.

Well, you volunteered. I didn't force you to react.

Do I have to explain why I used the phrase "New World" all of a sudden? The New World was not new in reality but conquering Europeans wanted it new to make it easier to massacre the natives and make them colonies. They are the present space of the United States, Canada, and Australia. That Europeans stole the two major continents is often why the descendants do not like to admit mass incoming people from non-Europe worlds. It will change slowly but just too slowly for the present generations of the New World rulers to have to face the consequence in their own lifetime.

I have to apologize for your attitude? If you don't understand, just ask next time rather than to try to make the other look like an idiot.

You haven't answered this: what kind of authority did you have in your first post here? The only thing you had to do was to say you are not getting why I grouped the three countries together.

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Do I have to explain why I used the phrase "New World" all of a sudden?

The New World is nothing else than North America

if you ask me and mr Dvorak.

/casa

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They are at least 99% South Koreans who want to be friendly to the United States.

i think that is a gross exaggeration, based on my experience playing rts games. a large percentage of the hardcore rts gamers in the world are south korean, and i have found an overwhelming majority of them to be anti-usa. the anti-usa sentiments broadcast after the recent military episode were also overwhelming.

i can't speak on percentages, but i would certainly be willing to be that 99% is much too forgiving.

You are again reading wrongly just to make my posts look bad.

What I meant was that most North Koreans are prohibited to read Western web boards while most South Koreans are allowed to do so and equipped with almost free and the fastest home internet connections in the world.

The latter part about being friendly to the United States was about South Koreans as the people of a nation-state.

That was not an exaggeration on my intention. Most South Koreans are actually hostile to the United States. I said so many times on this board before.

Over 99% cannot be wrong. Try to find out a North Korean on the Net.

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Very scientific.  ;)

you may underestimate how much rts gaming i've done, and how many south koreans play seriously :) the anti-usa / anti-sk statements are patently out of control in both game chat as well as the forums. it is a constant source of argument, and we are talking about tens of thousands of people. obviously this is mostly youth male, but isn't that the most net-inclined demographic in the world?

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Do I have to explain why I used the phrase "New World" all of a sudden?

The New World is nothing else than North America

if you ask me and mr Dvorak.

/casa

What happened to Australia and its native peoples? Australia is Old World when Americas are New World then?

The simplest description might be this:

Old World = Eurasia and Africa

New World = Americas and Oceania

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If the Americans left the indians or integrated with them

maybe there be a touch of oldie in it ; )

Maybe Canada can be regarded as the Old world too,

that's infact Dvoraks opinion ; )

/casa

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Very scientific.  ;)

you may underestimate how much rts gaming i've done, and how many south koreans play seriously :) the anti-usa / anti-sk statements are patently out of control in both game chat as well as the forums. it is a constant source of argument, and we are talking about tens of thousands of people. obviously this is mostly youth male, but isn't that the most net-inclined demographic in the world?

Well, that's true. It may not be a scientific method but it reflects the reality true enough. South Korean youths are very obedient. Though at least 10 million South Koreans are Christians including most of my relatives, fathers and grandfathers are the most important gods in South Korea even now. CIA website still describes South Korean legal system as Confucian, at the top of everything else. Since they were trained to distrust and hate the other nations, they just do.

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Well, you volunteered. I didn't force you to react.

in the entire history of storagereview i'm sure that all posts were volunteered, and nobody was forced to react. i don't see the meaning in this persistent statement.

Do I have to explain why I used the phrase "New World" all of a sudden?

if you want people to hear your message, yes. 'new world' is not a standard term to me. i don't recall it being taught in our history books, and i don't hear it spoken of in news media.

I have to apologize for your attitude? If you don't understand, just ask next time rather than to try to make the other look like an idiot.

i did not have any attitude, nor did i suggest you have to apologize for anything that i have done. i did ask, and i didn't try to make you look like an idiot.

You haven't answered this: what kind of authority did you have in your first post here?

none was required. i have the same authority as you or anyone else here. we're peers.

The only thing you had to do was to say you are not getting why I grouped the three countries together.

i did.

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Very scientific.  ;)

you may underestimate how much rts gaming i've done, and how many south koreans play seriously :) the anti-usa / anti-sk statements are patently out of control in both game chat as well as the forums.

The sound of anti-US sentiment is the sound of freedom, and personally, it is music to my ears. Ever notice that the one's we saved are the ones that whine the loudest?

Frank

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If the Americans left the indians or integrated with them

maybe there be a touch of oldie in it ; )

Maybe Canada can be regarded as the Old world too,

that's infact Dvoraks opinion ; )

/casa

Maybe I should have replaced Europe with European industrialism.

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You are again reading wrongly just to make my posts look bad.

i have not once done this with that intention. you are not qualified to definitively assess this, only to infer. i can tell you with 100% authority that i haven't sought to make your posts look bad.

Over 99% cannot be wrong. Try to find out a North Korean on the Net.

i wouldn't argue that. there was a miscommunication on what the 99% stood for.

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Very scientific.  ;)

you may underestimate how much rts gaming i've done, and how many south koreans play seriously :) the anti-usa / anti-sk statements are patently out of control in both game chat as well as the forums.

The sound of anti-US sentiment is the sound of freedom, and personally, it is music to my ears. Ever notice that the one's we saved are the ones that whine the loudest?

Frank

I believe there are better ways to explain that phenomenon. South Koreans hate the United States because the United States is the closest country in the world to South Korean reality. If it were Japan, or China, they would have changed the target. Remember who it was that the peoples of Hungary, Afghanistan, central Asia under USSR, and many other regions hated most? For most of its history, it was China that Koreans hated most. Japan was almost ignored simply because there had been virtually no interaction for most times. I'm not implying it's alright at all.

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You are again reading wrongly just to make my posts look bad.

i have not once done this with that intention. you are not qualified to definitively assess this, only to infer. i can tell you with 100% authority that i haven't sought to make your posts look bad.

Over 99% cannot be wrong. Try to find out a North Korean on the Net.

i wouldn't argue that. there was a miscommunication on what the 99% stood for.

Alright, then, I apologize for interpreting your posts as such.

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The only way you could link USA and Australia is via their defense and trade links. Certainly Aussie troops seem to be sent to whatever major conflict the US is involved in. And Aus needs to, because if the s$$ hits the fan we'll need Uncle Sam to come help us. As a byproduct, we also have good trade relationships with the US.

But you can't compare the types of government, Aus is turning into a socialist state, the likes of which the US would never accept.

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Do I have to explain why I used the phrase "New World" all of a sudden?

The New World is nothing else than North America

if you ask me and mr Dvorak.

/casa

What happened to Australia and its native peoples? Australia is Old World when Americas are New World then?

The simplest description might be this:

Old World = Eurasia and Africa

New World = Americas and Oceania

You will cause confusion with your def of New World because that was the name given to the Americas after Columbus discovered them in 1492.

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Old World being Europe, Asia and Africa.

Australia being discovered in the 1700's, I guess we are the newest world of all :)

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Do I have to explain why I used the phrase "New World" all of a sudden?

The New World is nothing else than North America

if you ask me and mr Dvorak.

/casa

What happened to Australia and its native peoples? Australia is Old World when Americas are New World then?

The simplest description might be this:

Old World = Eurasia and Africa

New World = Americas and Oceania

You will cause confusion with your def of New World because that was the name given to the Americas after Columbus discovered them in 1492.

I know that but somehow the importance of Columbus is much less appreciated in Asia. Try to look from the other side. I said New World not to celebrate Columbus but to mean colonizing Western Europeans during the industrial revolution. I just named the three most important and largest colonies. One might say Brazil and Mexico should have been included instead of Canada and Australia but the two Latin American states hardly appear the way the other two Anglo-Saxon states appear on the news headlines of Asian countries. Look at how the four billion Asians are accustomed to staying largely in each of their own homelands for hundreds and thousands of years. From their points of view, the New World - again including Australia - seems very aggressive, threatening, alien, dangerous. The "Old World" to Asians often mean the whole world, the "New World" being a very large island of white barbarians. The Old World feelings also help Asians prefer partners from European continent instead from American continent. Stressing religion, nationality, and patriotism will only further alienate Asians from the New World partly because most Asians are already with such things themselves, just in older and worse ways. You can't effectively fight a 5000-year-old patriotism with a 200-year-old patriotism.

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I know that but somehow the importance of Columbus is much less appreciated in Asia. Try to look from the other side. I said New World not to celebrate Columbus but to mean colonizing Western Europeans during the industrial revolution. I just named the three most important and largest colonies.

it may be common parlance in south korea, but i don't believe any of us could have been expected to be able to know your definition of the term. that is why i asked. we know now, but i don't think it's myopic of anyone to be unfamiliar with your terminology.

You can't effectively fight a 5000-year-old patriotism with a 200-year-old patriotism.

not in age, but certainly in zeal. isn't that what patriotism is? age serves to provide ammunition to the belief, but it can still exist in absence of it. colonial patriotism existed even before we had settlements, when there were only ships sailing toward the land for the first time.

now that things are copasetic and well-defined, what should we discuss?

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" Do you have an explination why you said Korea for North Korea?"

Yes, i have. Considered it the most logical thing, to think i meant N. Korea.

i will give you an example:

"Americans are considered to have the most advanced technology when it comes to weapons"

Now do i mean South-Americans? :rolleyes:

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We must add here that the scientist who sold the plans has gotten his education European universities (The Netherlands, oh yes, Belgium (Leuven) and Germany (and i mean West-Germany)....

Plans probably sold to N. Korea, Syria, Iran, Pakistan......if not a few more.

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Old World being Europe, Asia and Africa.

Australia being discovered in the 1700's, I guess we are the newest world of all :)

It depends on who's credited for it.

Not the native australians nor polynesians?

Looking at the geographical aspect of the continents

neither of them is new if we relate to homo sapian history.

/casa

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Discovered is such a great word.

I'm glad that Columbus "discovered" some of my ancestors.

Otherwise I would not be . . . well, me. :)

( Hard to be a mix of European and Native American without the Europeans making the trip.... :D )

********

I think we have another test case for U.N. muscle.

A country:

- producing Weapons of Mass Destruction (nuclear weapons) - not supposed to

- selling technology to enemy states

- refusing international inspections

- refusing cooperation with international authorities.

Sounds like Pakistan is lucky they are not a dictatorship!

Last time a country did that, "The West" invaded and cleaned things up.

But, the UN will deliberate for years about the correct course of action while politely reminding the Pakistan government that what they did was bad. B)

************

I'm glad we cleared up some definitions there.

For me (an American that previously had many international friends and has now crawled into a hole in the midwest United States), Koreans == People. North / South refers to the country or government.

And yes the same applied to Germany. Germans are Germans.

I did find it odd that the U.S., Canada, and Australia were grouped without mention of the U.K (or England if you prefer). Maybe I am too old to lose the notion of Superpowers, but I think of U.S., China, Russia.

As much as I love the folks in both Canada and Australia, I can't see them on the same level as the U.S.

That is what I found fascinating about this post. Your point of view, Kenny, is different. You see things that I can only see if I had multi-band satellite TV (or a few good URLs :) )

That's what I love about the Bar & Grille. Different folks from various countries (OK a few...) speaking/typing what's on their minds.

Dogeared

8^)

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Old World being Europe, Asia and Africa.

Australia being discovered in the 1700's, I guess we are the newest world of all :)

It depends on who's credited for it.

Not the native australians nor polynesians?

Looking at the geographical aspect of the continents

neither of them is new if we relate to homo sapian history.

/casa

OK, when the whiteman discovered Aus :P

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I was speaking with some Indian friends a couple of nights ago, and while they certainly have an anti-Pakistan bias, they felt strongly that Bin Laden is in Pakistan. They also felt strongly that the Saudi Arabian government is basically the Taliban with money. I'm inclined to agree.

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