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GOLDDIGGER

100gb+ Backup Solution?

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Any easy to use, enterprise ready, affordable, reliable backup solutions?

Tape seems expensive ($3000+ for a drive, $150 for a tape).

Any disk based solution that just makes sense?

Tape seems less reliable and slower.

Thanks for all input!

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the words ENTERPRISE and AFFORDABLE are not spoken together very often because, well, they have money. if you have money, buy something like an hp ultrium lto 100g/200g drive. if not, back up to disc and figure something out for offsite storage.

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I dunno, my uncle works at telstra and he says if any of the ultrium disks are ever dropped they are thrown out because they become unreliable.

-2ds

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I dunno, my uncle works at telstra and he says if any of the ultrium disks are ever dropped they are thrown out because they become unreliable.

well i'm not somebody's uncle...

I can't quite second the ultrium either.

and i can't offer such a technical analysis as that...

but i can say that i own an external hp ultrium lto 215 100/200. i've been using it 5 days a week for well over a year, and i have not had a single problem in backing up or restoring.

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I dunno, my uncle works at telstra and he says if any of the ultrium disks are ever dropped they are thrown out because they become unreliable.

-2ds

So the reliability is similar to a hard drive.

Drop it, it doesn't work quite right. :)

You could compress the data and then burn it to CDs/DVDs.

You could use DLT systems with a couple of tapes.... (tapes are better for daily backups w/ appropriate software)

Personally, I use Powerquest's Drive Image software to create DVD-sized disc images (high compression), and then burn to DVD. The nice thing is I can browse the images without restoring the whole thing.

Should mention I keep the last to system images on HDD.

For longer term storage of data, I create compressed archives (ZIP even if using RAR-capable software) and burn to better quality DVDs.

(I used to have a burner for gold DVD(A) discs. Used it for photos. Discs carried a 100year guarantee - hope my kids can collect if something happens :) )

One can never have too many backups of data,

DogEared

8^D

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Ultrium tape drives are a good solution, but they're a rather expensive one for home use, in my opinion. For the cost of the Ultrium drive and some media, you could build a completely new system and use that as your "backup".

I'd suggest going with an external USB 2.0 drive.

Your backup performance will be good, and reliability will be good, too. If you want extra protection, buy 2 or 3 and use them in rotation so you can always go back a few revisions on your files.

If you want to prevent downtime from hardware failure, you might want to think about a small UPS, redundant power supplies, and RAID 1, 1+0, or 5.

In any case, you should backup your important files onto at least two seperate pieces of media, so you always have a backup available, even when you are running a "new" backup task.

You don't want to be in the middle of a backup, have the power fail or your disk crash, and have no other backup available. :(

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Any easy to use, enterprise ready, affordable, reliable backup solutions?

Tape seems expensive ($3000+ for a drive, $150 for a tape).

Any disk based solution that just makes sense?

Tape seems less reliable and slower.

Thanks for all input!

Overall your specifications are not sufficently precise to give a meaningful answer. How often do you need the backups to run? What sort of backups are required? What sort of restorations are required? How long must the data be stored? What sort of data, can the data be compressed, Etc. ?

DLT is probably still the enterprise standard. Depending on your answers to the above you may be very well served by a DLT4000 or a DLT-1 drive for less than $1K with the tapes are now under $30, for 40-80G each. Although "old" and "slow", the DLT4000 remains the standard for many tape systems, and is the standard for DVD replication. I have one DLT4000 that has been running a Retrospect script that continually backs up a 24 system network for 3.5 years w/out stopping (other than to swap tapes, etc.). I have considered upgrading it many times, but keep coming up against the "it aint broken" conundrum.

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Hi all,

From personal experience, I can't really recommend LTO. We have an IBM 4560SLX library (essentially a rebadged Overland Neo 2000 with two HP Ultrium 1 drives). It's been doing its thing for about nine months now, and we've lost three tapes already.

Our older Compaq DLTIV 35/70 TL891 minilibrary is over three years old and I haven't had nearly as much trouble with it.

The last LTO tape we lost was able to completely hang the SCSI bus. Tivoli Storage Manager (backup software) mounts the tape, starts reading it, receives no data, SCSI command times out, bus is reset, repeat last two steps ad infinitum. Eventually, the entire system hangs (kernel panic).

Probably a coincidence, but this first happened the day after we flashed the two HP drives with the latest firmware, hoping to remedy other reliability problems.

As I was looking for the links, I came across this nice video of the 4560SLX . I found the "in fact, no single failure can disable the entire library" part quite amusing...

I've been told that IBM's own LTO drives (used in IBM's more expensive tape storage products instead of its cheaper, xSeries-targeted backup solutions) are more reliable, but slower.

If the amount of data is small, I'd certainly go for backup to disk. First find backup software which supports it, though. Tivoli Storage Manager can do it, but I feel it's overkill for your environment. Check out the admin guide and admin reference . 750 and 1160 pages respectively. Nope, I still haven't read all of it... :angry: Overload...

To be honest, it's overkill for my company too, but the IT manager here worships IBM so...

You can always KIS&S and write a script yourself, or use some sync software as well. Easy if you all your data fits on a single external USB or IEEE1394 disk. LaCie fits up to 4 drives into a single virtual 1TB package.

JD

P.S. I believe LTO2 (200GB native) is already available as well.

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So the reliability is similar to a hard drive. 

Drop it, it doesn't work quite right.  :)

as i already stated, i own the drive. i have dropped tapes, and this has not been my experience. i would caution everyone in this thread to please listen to those who have first-hand experience with products and ignore the arm-waving.

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joydivision, how were all three of the tapes lost?

After two months of operation, one of the LTO drives swallowed a tape. No matter what we tried, it wouldn't come out.

HP's Ultrium drives haven't got a manual rewinding mechanism to get the tape out, so eventually an IBM service technician came over, tried what he could, and ultimately replaced the drive and took the old drive (with the tape still in it) for examination.

By the way, we're using tape media recommended by IBM itself: Imation Black Watch Ultrium 51122 41089 . At least it says so in the 4560SLX User's Guide.

I described the second tape going berserk in my previous post.

I took out the third one just yesterday, after it had developed data corruption. I might try and use it again later on, but for now we're still having other issues with the hardware and I don't want a dubious tape to interfere.

tsm: EMMA>query content afl801l1 damaged=yes

Node Name           Type     Filespace      FSID     Client's Name for File                
                            Name                    
---------------     ----     ----------     ----     --------------------------------------
NAJA                Bkup     \\naja\d$         1     \LCONF\SECRETARY\MAILING LISTS\MAILBOX.PAB
NAJA                Bkup     \\naja\d$         1     \LCONF\SECRETARY\MANAGEMENT MEETING\MINUTES 03.08.99.DOC
NAJA                Bkup     \\naja\d$         1     \LCONF\SECRETARY\MANAGEMENT MEETING\MINUTES 21.06.99.DOC

Naturally, my story is statistically irrelevant. Our tapes or tape drives might have come from a bad batch, we might just be terribly unlucky etc. I just can't say I recommend LTO, but that doesn't mean I consider all LTO products unreliable garbage. I'm not in a position to know.

JD

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i'm pretty curious about the exabyte vxa stuff

I guess I'm one of the few running VXA-1 drives (2 currently), and in my last job, they were the standard tape drive (VXA1/2 depending on storage requirements), having sold over 20 units. To my knowledge (speaking with some of the techs at my old job last week), no units or tapes have failed in the 24 months of use.

IMHO, they're quite good drives... Anything else you would like to know?

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Guess what I found when I came to work this morning:

tsm: EMMA>query act search=anr????e begint=00:28 endt=00:29

Date/Time                Message                                                   
--------------------     ----------------------------------------------------------
01/28/2004 00:28:34      ANR8944E Hardware or media error on drive LTO02           
                         (/dev/tsmscsi/mt1) (OP=READ, Error Number=5, CC=404,     
                         KEY=03, ASC=31, ASCQ=00, SENSE=70.00.03.00.00.00.00.0E.0-
                         0.00.00.00.31.00.00.00.2C.EB.00.00.00.00.,               
                         Description=Media incompatibility).  Refer to Appendix D 
                         in the 'Messages' manual for recommended action.         
01/28/2004 00:28:34      ANR8359E Media fault detected on LTO volume AFL810L1 in   
                         drive LTO02 (/dev/tsmscsi/mt1) of library 4560SLX.       
01/28/2004 00:28:34      ANR1165E Data-integrity error detected for file in storage
                         pool AUTOPOOL: Node LPAR3, Type Backup, File space       
                         /cluster, fsId 1, File name /transfer/moe/Sdf/CorporateD-
                         B/Pharmcophore/DUPONTQ403/ dupont_todo_1.mdb.            
01/28/2004 00:28:34      ANR3503E Generation of backup set for LPAR3 as            
                         LPAR3_OFFSITE.10359492 failed.

Sigh.

JD

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