f_vo

What Happens If Bush Does Not Get Re-elected

Recommended Posts

"Arafat agreed to ending the violence once an equitable position had been found. Israel and he had problems defining that end state - each is too afraid of their own extremists. But unfortunately, he is the only legitimate leader of Palestinians who is even trying to find a solution...Hamas simply declare that only by destroying Israel in it's entirety can the Palestinians flourish..."

Israel and Arafat have found DOZENS of solutions, of which none ever really made it. The problem is not Israeli extremist, but Arafat who cannot control his "wild bunch".

"Me, I'm simply waiting for the situation to resolve itself naturally. In a decade or two, Arabs will outnumber Jews living in Israel, and then democratic processes will end the problem - and not in favor of the Jews. The Arab population is growing far faster than the Jewish population..."

As in Belgium, as in Belgium ...... and the rest of Europe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As for everybody thinking that Bush will get reelected, it seems that he who is in charge (now Bush) ALWAYS gets reelected, if it is a "war-lover" or someone who cannot keep his pants up.... he always gets reelected. So American members on the board, would it not be better to elect a president for 8 years in a row? This way you say some serious $$$$$. It seems to me that the election after the first four years is just for fun....and money wasting.

Er, 21 of 43 total presidents were NOT elected to a second term. Several more died in office before their second term. Less than half of the US presidents ever saw a second term.

The incumbent certainly has an advantage, but as George H. W. Bush learned, that advantage is not insurmountable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True B.A., but times are changing. Right now Presidents are not that often killed anymore. But then again, those who where killed "probably" would have gotten reelected.....

Now if this Bush does NOT get reelected what do we learn from that:

1) he is/was to stupid to be president

2) U.S. citizens are finally coming to their sences.

3) he still might be killed....

4) he "hardly" won the first one, so getting reelected is not that certain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How has your personal freedom been diminished by the war on terror? Please give us an example. I know that I am as free as ever.

No longer have right to a lawer, no longer have right to a trial, RIAA using Patriot Act to nab people. RIAA is even bullying people on the streets now.

has your phone been tapped? Mine hasn't

how do you know?

No longer allowed to protest in many areas. The list goes on and on.

Israel and Arafat have found DOZENS of solutions, of which none ever really made it. The problem is not Israeli extremist, but Arafat who cannot control his "wild bunch".

People always forgot 1 large factor when they see the Israeli/Palistinian conflict. Ironic that's probably the largest factor. Here is 1 clue: Og.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Israel and Arafat have found DOZENS of solutions, of which none ever really made it. The problem is not Israeli extremist, but Arafat who cannot control his "wild bunch".

Let's see YOU try it f_vo...

FS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How has your personal freedom been diminished by the war on terror? Please give us an example. I know that I am as free as ever.

No longer have right to a lawer, no longer have right to a trial, RIAA using Patriot Act to nab people. RIAA is even bullying people on the streets now.

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. If the RIAA knocks on your door and asks you for the pirated CD's you're distributing, simply ask for the warrant. When they don't have one, close the door. They start busting down the doow, shoot them.

The parking attendant that got busted only got busted cause he incriminated himself. He didn't have to hand over stinker.

Thank you for your time,

FranK Russo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Israel and Arafat have found DOZENS of solutions, of which none ever really made it. The problem is not Israeli extremist, but Arafat who cannot control his "wild bunch".

Let's see YOU try it f_vo...

FS

ok, although some will not like what i say. But éh, i give it a try....

I would "remove" Arafat. Sure there will be attacks to consider, BUT...there are attacks right now as well

1) he (Arafat)is not a Palestinian, but Egyptian, so a renegade. Why are so many here on the board in favor of him???????

2) everybody living in Israel or the land called Palestinia should be know (as much as possible) together with their relatives

3) relatives of the one comitting a crime like blowing up people, are put in jail, if necessary killed.

4) it will be hard to clean house, but éh, you asked me too.

Second option:

1) The UN takes over

2) a military force under control of the U.S. controls the area and will try to remove the problem makers

3) if necessary the whole Arab world will be controlled. You never know if Syria, Iran, Saudi will be involved OPENLY.

So you see Shock, you will not like number one and not like number two.

There is no proof that either number one or two will work, but as things are going right now, they are NOT working either for the past 55 years.

Give it your best answer here.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How has your personal freedom been diminished by the war on terror? Please give us an example. I know that I am as free as ever.

No longer have right to a lawer, no longer have right to a trial, RIAA using Patriot Act to nab people. RIAA is even bullying people on the streets now.

I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. If the RIAA knocks on your door and asks you for the pirated CD's you're distributing, simply ask for the warrant. When they don't have one, close the door. They start busting down the doow, shoot them.

The parking attendant that got busted only got busted cause he incriminated himself. He didn't have to hand over stinker.

Thank you for your time,

FranK Russo

I agree with you BBH however I would point out that RIAA is not empowered by any government agency or institution to serve search warrants or to carry out any sort of search and siezure operation. As you know the RIAA is a private organization which absolutely nothing to do with and State or Federal government agency or instituion and has no more authority or standing under U.S. law then does the Girl Scouts of America.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there an equivalent offence in the US to our “impersonating a police officer�

I ask because, as a general rule, I give more credence to a request to a police officer than I do to a request from A.N.Other.

It seems to me that the parking lot guy, if he was unsure of the details of his legal rights and obligations, was far more likely to incriminate himself than he would otherwise have been due to the apparel of his interrogators.

F’vo, you make me very sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2) a military force under control of the U.S. controls the area and will try to remove the problem makers

I wonder how the US military would control the largest, best organized terror organization on the world. Hell, I bet they'd stinker their pants if they had to go against the Israeli military.

3) relatives of the one comitting a crime like blowing up people, are put in jail, if necessary killed

Great idea. Sins of the father etc. Remind me that if you ever bump into my car I'll go after your family as well as you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What Happens If Bush Does Not Get Re-elected, and in Iraq things turn bad....again

Life goes on, same as it always has. Same sh*t in the papers, only different names.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No longer have right to a lawer, no longer have right to a trial, RIAA using Patriot Act to nab people. RIAA is even bullying people on the streets now.

Poor choice of words on my part.

The bullying on the streets isn't equal to their legal right to monitor people on the internet.

Our company is forced to use software (given to us by the FBI) to monitor people and report them to the RIAA. Our managers were pissed, but due to the PatriotAct we must comply with helping the FBI and RIAA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Our company is forced to use software (given to us by the FBI) to monitor people and report them to the RIAA. Our managers were pissed, but due to the PatriotAct we must comply with helping the FBI and RIAA.

I don't understand this at all - it just doesn't make sense. AFAIK the FBI could not care less about the RIAA's problems. Is this a case of the FBI wanting you monitor people for their own reasons unrelated to the RIAA and if you happen to observe people illegally sharing copyrighted material to notify the RIAA?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there an equivalent offence in the US to our “impersonating a police officer�

I ask because, as a general rule, I give more credence to a request to a police officer than I do to a request from A.N.Other. 

It seems to me that the parking lot guy, if he was unsure of the details of his legal rights and obligations, was far more likely to incriminate himself than he would otherwise have been due to the apparel of his interrogators.

F’vo, you make me very sad.

Absolutely it is against the law to impersonate a law enforcement officer. In my opinion this is exactly what the RIAA "SWAT Team" is deliberately doing in a very deceitful way. However to put a stop to this practice, either the police will have to catch them in the act or someone who has been victimized will need to file a complaint against the RIAA with the police department. It may also be that the ACLU will file a class action law suit against the RIAA on behalf of the victims.

No way this is going to allow to be continued much longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From "soft" I thought you were hinting more towards Dean. Kerry was a Vietnam vet, am I correct? Anyway, the most important aspect f_vo, that you are forgetting is how will Iraq's close neighbors, and distant neighbors China, Japan, France, and Germany get along with the new interim government. You need to take the U.S. out of the equation, we have our own problems, mind you. The only people that can help Iraq get structured and moving is their own; with the aid of neighbors and allies who have had historical ties and relationships. It's like the first time you move, you part from all of your friends and are subjected to a new environment. So naturally you become subjected to mindful activities leading to fear, hesitation and anxiety... What are going to do, travel back to your old friends for help? no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think short of Bush choking to death on snack chips he will be re-elected.This will be good for the USA as far as the military and war on terror,but will sure as hell hurt the USA in the pocket book.

You forgot the War on personal freedoms as well. Bush is doing pretty well at that too, all in the name to fight terror.

How has your personal freedom been diminished by the war on terror? Please give us an example. I know that I am as free as ever. My baggage gets screened a little more carefully is that what you mean? Or has your phone been tapped? Mine hasn't. I don't plan on conspiring over the telephone or the internet to blow anything up how about you? Should we be allowed to do that?

I thought I would repost a USEnet post regarding this same debate. It is by J. Michael Straczynski, a prose, poetry, and science fiction writer (dead trees and television), best known for writing Babylon 5.

I don't claim to disagree or agree with it, but it does seem to have some examples of civil rights problems, mostly regarding the Patriot Act (something I definitely have a problem with).

>The worst is the third. Thought it was a good idea at the time, but the

>polls change your outlook. Although I would give them a point or two if they

>could give me a couple real reasons for the change (things that actually

>happened that they hadn't foreseen for instance).

The problem is that the bill submitted as the Patriot Act which was ramrodded

through Congress on the theory that if you didn't vote for it you were

therefore Un-Patriotic...is that it wasn't a complete document.

It was hundreds of pages of material that largely referenced *other* documents

not included in the package. So you had entry after entry along the lines of,

"amends sub-section A of regulation B to read "may have" instead of "must

have," and unless you go out and get Regulation B and read it you don't know

what it is you just voted on. There were a lot of senators who wanted more

time to read the thing through, but the Administration wouldn't brook any

delays, and anyone asking for one was marginalized as being against patriotism

and self-defense.

The so-called Patriot Act has led to some of the most egregious acts of the

last fifty years, and then some, commited by our government against its own

people.

Jose Padilla, a low-life but still an American citizen, has been held without

access to an attorney, his family or a judge since May 2002 under provisions

declaring him an "enemy combatant," a term that has no legal standing but is

buttressed by the Patriot Act (which, by the way, in phase 2 which is pending

before congress stipulates that any American citizen can have his citizenship

*revoked* if he is found to be giving money to any agency which may have

unsavory connections, even if he didn't know about those connections, where

previously only a citizen could chose to give up his citizenship).

Hundreds of people -- mostly foreign nationals and some citizens -- are still

being held as Padilla is being held, without charge, indefinitely.

No abuses of civil rights?

Tell that to the National Library Association, which reports that nearly 20% of

its members have been forced to comply with government requests that they turn

over information on reading requests.

Tell that to Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen who came to that country as a boy,

went to college, got two degrees, married, went to work for a tech company, had

a wife and kids and was considered a stand-up member of his community, highly

respected...who was arrested without charge whlie passing through the US on his

way back to Montreal and held for *six months* during which time he was sent to

a Jordanian interrogation facility and subjected to inhumane conditions before

being finally released without charge.

No civil rights abuses under the Patriot Act?

Tell that to Donna Huanca, a docent with the Art Car museum, who was handling a

showing of anti-war art (most commissioned pre-911) and who found herself being

questioned by Terrence Donahue of the FBi and Steven Smith of the Secret

Service, who also wanted the names and addresses of the artists in question, on

the grounds that the art was Un-American.

Tell that to A. J. Brown, a freshman at Durham Tech in North Carolina who had

agents from the Raleigh branch of the Secret Service show up because they heard

she had anti-Bush posters in her dorm room. (They had already done background

checks on her, including finding out that her mother is in the military.) She

received further calls from them, including some asking if she were working

with the Taliban...this based on having expressed anti-Bush sentiments.

Tell that to the American Booksellers Foundation, which recently sent a letter

to its member stores saying, in part, that due to the Patriot act "the federal

government expanded authority to search your business records, including the

titles of the books purchased by your customers. . . . There is no opportunity

for you or your lawyer to object in court. You cannot object publicly, either.

The new law includes a gag order that prevents you from disclosing 'to any

person' the fact that you have received an order to produce documents."

The Patriot Act gives the government unprecedented abilities to pry into every

aspect of your private life. They say this is just for tracking terrorists,

but about a week ago the FBI announced that it had successfully used the new

freedoms gained under the PA to pursue a regular criminal investigation, and

the office of Homeland Security was invoked to try and find out where the

democratic congressmen in Texas had fled to in an attempt to stop the massive

redistricting under way there.

I could literally go on for another five pages with just the initial breaches

of privacy and civil rights that have already been committed by this

administration, let alone what's happened more recently, and what is in Patriot

Act II that is even more egregious.

There are a growing number of reps in the Senate and the House -- mostly

Democrats but also a growing number of Republicans -- who feel that they were

taken advantage of in the days following 9/11 and co-opted into passing

something they would never have passed in the open, under other conditions,

trusting that all the sub-references and changes being requested were in

everyone's best interests.

They were not.

jms

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. If the RIAA knocks on your door and asks you for the pirated CD's you're distributing, simply ask for the warrant. When they don't have one, close the door. They start busting down the doow, shoot them.

The parking attendant that got busted only got busted cause he incriminated himself. He didn't have to hand over stinker.

Thank you for your time,

FranK Russo

I don't know how the rest of the world would handle the RIAA DOING THIS SORT OF THING,but where i'm from they would end up in a swamp as gator bait.now don't get me wrong we respect the law but the RIAA ain't the damn law.

Fixed missing quote tag --mods

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"F’vo, you make me very sad."

Can well be, but do not get carry away.

One must look at every possibility available, even the ones unpleasant.

I was asked to give my personal thoughts.

At least i try to give some options, not always possible to achive.

Furthermore Fool, do not forget that Bush is NO BETTER. He is a master in "camouflage".

Killing Arafat is bad, invading Iraq is ok. Many U.S. and British soldiers died in Iraq.

For me a life of a soldier equals the life of Arafat or Bush.

When election time will be there, everyone will blink and vote for Bush. Now how does this grab you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote you King:

"Great idea. Sins of the father etc. Remind me that if you ever bump into my car I'll go after your family as well as you."

No, the thought behind this is to scare terrorist bombers. If those not hesitating now to blow themselves up WITH YOUR FAMILY, and knowing the consequences, maybe the one that could blow away your family would not do it. The point here is to intercept those hesitating to do it.

Afterall it is good to blow up some 20-30 persons, but it is not good to life by "an eye for an eye".

I know this seems strange, but he who has a better idea to stop ot diminish terrorist acts.....let's hear it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"You need to take the U.S. out of the equation, we have our own problems, mind you."

True Smack, but most of the U.S. problems where created by the ..... U.S., right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't understand this at all - it just doesn't make sense. AFAIK the FBI could not care less about the RIAA's problems. Is this a case of the FBI wanting you monitor people for their own reasons unrelated to the RIAA and if you happen to observe people illegally sharing copyrighted material to notify the RIAA?

The FBI reports are FOR the RIAA. I don't know all the details (not part of the department). I only keep track of performance and minor LAN services for our organization.

All I can say is that our managers were pissed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Here is 1 clue: Og."

You lost me  Qawsedrftgzxcvb

There are many horrors of history that should not have been forgotten. You can google all you want, but modern society has mostly forgotten the horrors that once were.

Unfortunately, those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I would recommend Jewish, Arab, and Zoroastrian texts that tell of the an Empire ruled by a ruthless tyrant so evil that none in history have matched him. What does this have to do with modern times? Read and find out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"There are many horrors of history that should not have been forgotten. You can google all you want, but modern society has mostly forgotten the horrors that once were."

True, nobody no longer care what happened even a few years back. Who care what happened in 1991 (if i am right, do not want to look it up again) in Kuwait....

Exactly, nobody....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now