Michael55

Integrated Ram Drive

151 posts in this topic

Oh, and by the way, 12GB of PC2100 CL2.5 DDR could be had for £1500 - a 12GB ram drive for £1700, now that almost seems quite reasonable. :)

-Gav

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Could we please see some non sales person views. I know theres two sales people involved in this thread. Sorry to raise my voice. But doesnt feel right for us, to hear only good sides about this products, and hiding the bads.

Thanks

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gmsandison-

I've thought about doing that too! :P

And I do believe it would work, though I wonder just how much CPU overhead would be required on the main box. Throughput would probably be somewhat less than a decent harddisk, but I/O's per second should be substantially higher. Perhaps use Netbeui? Less overhead, but I'm not sure if you can boot with it.

About the IDE ramdisk-

I'd be very interested in a big ramdisk if it was on a PCI-X (64bits 133 MHz) bus and bootable. If it can't be made to directly boot from the PCI bus, how about a two part deal, with a small RAM (flash based maybe) boot partition running of the IDE bus, with a very low level driver that enables the larger PCI-X attached disk, which in turn emulates a real and bootable disk, in which the OS and apps are installed to?

I'm not a PC design engineer, so it may be completely ridiculous what I just proposed...

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Hi

As far as I know I am the only person posting here that has any connection with HyperOS. The connection is I started as a hobby a support forum for other HyperOS users some 2 years ago.

I have never worked for HyperOS.

Until such time, as and when the powers that be at HyperOS release a real and working HyperDrive3 for review no one outside of HyperOS knows for sure just how good or bad the product is. As usual with such things the devil will be in the detail! All the data released so far has not been verified by third parties.

However the data they did released for the previous model the HyperDriveII was confirmed as accurate once it was launched by reviewers other than myself.

I for one look forward to getting my hands on one and will write a review as soon as possible. I am aware that writing an impartial review will be difficult due to my connection with HyperOS which will be declared. But the performance figures, graphs and raw data will be based on facts.

Untill then...................................................

ps why the dislike of someone from any company giving information about a product on the forum.

If someone from Maxtor started posting here about a new drive that was going to be released in a few months and listed some of the performance benefits of the new drive and was willing to answer a few questions about that drive. Now would he or she be welcomed or told not to post?

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Hi

From HyperOS

"The first batch of HD3's should be in the UK by the end of September or during the first week in October, each model will then be tested. Shipments to customers & reviewers will start during the first or second week of October assuming that there are no further delays".

Untill then....................................... :rolleyes:

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Hi all,

I have read through this thread and it doesnt seem to say anywhere about mixing DIMM sizes, I know the max size DIMM is 2Gb but can different sizes be mixed? ie 2x256Mb and 2x512Mb also can different speeds be mixed? say 2 PC2100 and 2 PC3200? as the max size is up to 16Gb does that mean that you could run this with only 2 or 4 of the sockets populated? or do you have to run the device with all the slots filled?

.

hope that someone will be able to provide answers B)

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it seems to me that putting your OS on this fast disk isn't really worth doing, since most of the time in my system the OS is simply waiting for devices to come online/waiting for timeouts during bootup/normal operation..

about the ONLY thing that this unit would become handy for is a scratch disk..something like where you place your Vobs/work while you manipulate etc (your largest DVD comes in around 9gig so allowing for stuffing around you really need atleast double that)

so I'm pretty much getting to the point in my own mind where it's not worth it unless they can use some old ram (say..old 133 SD memory that's VERY cheap) and bring the price down to close to normal HD's.

imagine if they could make a device the same size as a HD (and maybe a CD-ROM sized variant) that could be interfaced with the connector of your choice(say, with a simple click on connector that changed between SCSI/ATA/SATA) and if they had a source of 512/whatever meg DIMM's of SD memory at very very low cost..say $20 a stick if that(that's $AU)..then as long as your memory error testing facilities are good you might have a go..then you can simply attach 12 sticks of SD and off you go(your going to need to get the memory prices cheaper than what people can grab it of the street however to stop being attempting to put it in themselves or provide utilities with the unit to test if each stick(on a bank per bank basis) is faulty or not)

Notes:..

1, DO NOT USE ECC/REG DIMMS these are expensive/rare.

2, your average old machine with SD133 benches at around 1gig a sec sustained, so get your act in gear and make this bandwidth accessable(make the 1gig a sec available to your universal standard adapter mentioned earlier)

3, backingup...forget the whole battery to save data option it's garentee'd to cause problems, I recommend a 200gig HD or the likes to just export data to before you shut down.

4..ok so you HAVE to have a battery backup..maybe make a larger battery that would provide power to hold the data for say..a week if things go wrong..and make it bolt into a spare 5.25 or 3.5" bay?

Just a few thoughts.

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I'd by 6 gig Ram disks at $200AU hell, even at around $300AU..but start to hit 400~500 and your pushing it(not including accessories)

the reason I'm saying you want to push the whole universal connector is so you can at a later date release adapters for new standards..like SATA 300..and 600, as well as SCSI U640 and maybe Fibre channel(highly lucradive, and probably where the largest market for this would be)

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You know I am interested in SSD for scratch disk, however looking at the price for HyperDrive III + the cost of memory. I don’t think its worth wile. Don’t get me wrong it’s a good idea, but its seem to be far more expensive then just getting a mother board the supports 8 Dim slots, purchasing a 1gig module for each then using RAMDisk (in Windows XP) to carve out of the a 2GB partition and leave the remainder for a scratch disk. This looks to be a far cheaper solution then the HyperDrive

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Question is how many of you actually use your disks to warrent this device? Like I said a RAM drive isn't much faster than a modern 15K drive for average use.

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I would actually use the product..

I do many many codes which get really hit when I do muxing and stripping of streams etc, I can't really do more than one of these at a time else my system slows down to about half speed >.<

I'm also currently being held back by a lack of CPU power, the Dual core Opy's should help with that but then it's back to being held back by disk IO

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everyone on here seem to be obsessed with the speed of these units, there is one other important aspect of a device such as this one and thats noise, or as should be in the case of the Hyperdrive III, the lack of noise. My interest in this is purely from the noise factor, the increased speed if any will be an extra bonus.

My current PC is completly passivly cooled and the only thing making any noise is the two Seagate Barracuda IV 40Gb HDD's and as you might know those are seen as some of the quietest drives out there.

I was recommended the Samsung Spinpoint drives by a lot of people and read a great deal of forum posts saying they are virtually silent, IMHO they are far from quiet, hence the Seagate drives are still in my main system.

the plan is to have the Hyperdrive III as boot device and all other storage on a server on the network (in another room). that would finally give me peace and quiet while using the PC..... :D

sorry for rambling on there btw

/rant mode off

B)

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I guess from a Joe-Sixpack point of view the competition of this HyperDrive III is not a regular HD itself, but the software based ram drive.

Most people that need a ram drive do so because of random access, that are too slow in even the fastest HD. People that do so tends to worry more about performance than about size and/or bootability. So as others say, forget about bootability (or have a more expensive model just for boot), but concentrate on size and speed.

People that want speed in a small size (i.e. less than 1-2 GB) will not buy it no matter what because due to the IDE/PCI/southbridge limitation it will never be faster than a software based ram drive in windows/linux.

People that want bootability in a small size will not buy it either because flash memory based drive will be just as good and cheaper (sandisk anyone)?

People that want large size and don't care about speed (or only care about sequential access) will not buy it because a fast SCSI/IDE drive is all they need.

The only one left is the one that need large and fast random access (massively multithreaded database in small size, like authenication for a thousand user database, or maybe the SETI@home worldwide job dispatcher, where 100k or so user are updating/logging in their work worldwide on a continuous basis).

With only 4GB or so with no upgrade path it is not really worth it to shell out $500 for it. I think it is wiser to just tell Hyperdrive to sell a bare card that hold tons of ram slots (talking about 8-16 SDR or DDR) and with a connector to an external power jack (for an external 2nd UPS as an option). People that will want to keep this data will probably already have redundant PS or UPS, as well as a replication every several hours/minutes.

You add upgradability and you can sell it for a lot more, people tends to pay for small amount upfront and then upgrade as ram price drop or their income increase. It is more affordable that way.

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I do many many codes which get really hit when I do muxing and stripping of streams etc, I can't really do more than one of these at a time else my system slows down to about half speed

G-d invented RAID for a reason.

I might get a SSD for my home machine if I get a large fat bonus check :). Hopefully my CEO is gonna be in a good mood.

I'm also currently being held back by a lack of CPU power, the Dual core Opy's should help with that but then it's back to being held back by disk IO

G-d invented beowulf for a reason. I'm actully thinking about settting up one in my house. I have enough DL380s :).

the plan is to have the Hyperdrive III as boot device and all other storage on a server on the network (in another room). that would finally give me peace and quiet while using the PC

I already do that. The problem is when something goes haywire and you have to go in the noisy room. To save me the walk I just keep the noisy stuff near me now.

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HyperDrive III can only hold up to 16GB but the data is still pretty volitile. In a couple of years companies should have an affordable SSD solution. I was told me there is a drive technology (solid state) simiar to flash but with more write cycles than flash. The drives should be about as expensive as high end fibre drives and should be a faster than current mechanical ones. The guy is intelligent but he could be mistaken... poor guy is nearing retirement :( .

People that want speed in a small size (i.e. less than 1-2 GB)

Most games will even take up more than that.

People that want bootability in a small size ...

Hyperdrive III is supposted to be bootable.

The only one left is the one that need large and fast random access (massively multithreaded database in small size, like authenication for a thousand user database, or maybe the SETI@home worldwide job dispatcher, where 100k or so user are updating/logging in their work worldwide on a continuous basis).

Actually Hyperdrive III isn't good enough for the highest I/O needds. The drive can give out an alleged 20K I/O but my comany had a need where we'd constantly do work on a database where 20K I/O sec wasn't nearly enough. We went with TI because their RAM SAN was a much better solution. We also get a 50% discount with TI so I'm all for it.

Hyperdrive III seems to be a good drive for a large quick cache area more than anything else. It's not bad and I'm thinking about getting one for my desktop to hopefully alleviate my abused drives.

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Hi

This is the latest update I have from the MD at HyperOS RE the HD3.

Here is the update...

"Again we must and do apologise for the delay. The HIII has been at our German PCB routing company for 3 weeks. The Germans have been working hard at routing the 8 DDR DIMM slots in such a way that the board will take every type of DDR RAM module. The trick is that all the Data tracks from the PGA to the 8 DDR sockets must have the same impedance and therefore be the same length, so that all the singals arrive at each pin at the same time (to within 5 nanoseconds). This does require some iteration in board design. We have spent two weeks moving components around the PCB to achieve this. These Data tracks are now 76% routed (it is an 8 layer board but all the Data tracks are on the same layer).

The Data track routing should be finished at the end of the week. The rest of the routing is routine and similar to the HII, so the board should be fully routed by 24th and built and populated by December 3rd. The first 5 production boards will then be tested in our Dutch labs and we should have them by December 10th. So we get them in our Christmas stocking but we will not start the 100 run until mid December so it is unlikely that we will be shipping until mid January. We will keep you informed and we do hope to be able to give you real performance figures of the first 5 production boards before Christmas.

Thanks for your patience.

Regards

Gordon"

With luck I should get my hands on one of those first five production boards, before Christmas. If I do, I will publish some benchmarking graphs of my own and a few close-up pictures of the HD3. But I am not holding my breath as the HD3

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Couldn't someone make a SDD out of old SDRAM for really cheap? i.e. someone just makes a board with the memory controller chip on it with the interface, then wait a few years for the "old ram" to plummet in price and pick up tonnes of it used on ebay and you got yourself a nice SDD for not that much $$$. Plus you wouldn't even need ram to operate at SDRAM speeds of 1GB/second, hard disks can't even break 50MB a second.

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Couldn't someone make a SDD out of old SDRAM for really cheap? i.e. someone just makes a board with the memory controller chip on it with the interface, then wait a few years for the "old ram" to plummet in price and pick up tonnes of it used on ebay and you got yourself a nice SDD for not that much $$$.  Plus you wouldn't even need ram to operate at SDRAM speeds of 1GB/second, hard disks can't even break 50MB a second.

Playtpus and Centatek have already done it.

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Michael555, I know your forum gets a small commission from helping to sell the SSD. What do I have to do to give you credit for Hyperdrive III? I plan on buying 1or 2 in a RAID 0 for my home machine (depending on my fat bonus check :) ).

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Hi

HyperDriveII Update:

Tests on a 2Gb version, it has own power supply and backup battery and has a ATA33 interface.

Sustained transfer speed is 30.7mb/s, this speed remains constant and is not affected by the type or size of the data being moved or its location in the drive.

Access time is 0.1m/s

Time to install Windows XP from CD 11 minutes:

Next version will have ATA66 interface and should have a constant transfer rate of around 60mb/s. Two of these in a raid 0 setup should offer adequate performance.

The goal is to move to a SATA  interface by mid summer.

What performance level does HyperDriveII need to reach to make it a viable alternative to standard high performance hard drives?

Michael555, has HyperOS considered engineering these so there are several boards stacked on top of each other (with the memory chips soldered on of course rather than dimms) in a 3.5" drive enclosure? That should be able to increase the capacity of their drives and make them mountable in existing ATX cases. If they design it efficently enough it should also allow them to install a larger and more powerful battery (perhaps Lithium Polymer) to maintain the hyper drive's data longer in the event of a power outage. I myself would like to see 48 hour battery life when remembering the great power outage of 2003.

After that if they can get the attention of large OEMs (e.g. Dell) they could probably strike a special deal with their suppliers (e.g. Micron) to significantly drive down the price of the HyperDrive.

Just a few thoughts.

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Hi Shining Arcanine

The HyperDrive 2 was just a board with the memory chips soldered on, that fitted inside a dvd sized drive enclosure.

A problem with several boards stacked on top of each other would be heat, the HyperDrive 2 got very warm during testing. Some form of active cooling would have to be fitted.

You can set up the HyperDrive so it feeds directly from a standard UPS.

Power would then be:

1: HyperDrive runs off mains power via standard UPS.

2: HyperDrive runs off standard UPS if mains power fails.

3: HyperDrive runs on its own in-built UPS when standard UPS fails.

Untill I get my hands on one I cannot confirm the following, but have been informed that once HyperDrive goes onto backup power all data is auto saved to its own hard disk. That hard disk is powered during a power cut by the in-built battery inside the HyperDrive.

Latest from HyperOS Systems are review samples will be sent out mid-January and those that have placed a pre-order will get them at the same time.

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