waterdog

Proof of God's Existence

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fool, i read up on ur philiosopher that u like a lot...

But after looking at the website u dirested us to i am left with a few questions.

both he and i believe in life, creativity, health, and the realities of the world we live in. what i dont understand is how come we cant live in the realities of this world yet still work for the world that lies in our near future. you have to admit our world is imperfect. there are murderers, thefs, liars, people out to deceive you, and death. there is more than this. we dont have to die to this world, but we can rise to a new one. this like is kind of like school; you work hard to get to the next grade, Heaven. Not everybody makes it, and if you don't you fall behind and you have a much more difficult life, hell. what is wrong with morality? do you not believe in rights and wrongs?

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BA, If I say I know something, I'm saying more, much more, than I believe it. Hell, I'm saying that not only would I be willing to bet my life & my mortal soul on my being right, but that there is no possibility that I could be wrong in even the smallest detail. For example, the only thing in which I believe that presently springs to mind is the second law of thermodynamics.

I don't believe (;)) that there is any such thing as "knowledge" then, given this definition. There is nothing that is "impossible" to be wrong (aside from perhaps tautologies or circular logic). My view of the verb "know" is that it is the point at which belief no longer enters the equation -- because you have no question that you are correct.

This definition of "know" tends to apply only interiorly -- it is a feeling of absolute certainty, not a fact. In other words, you can "know" something and still be wrong. Belief has to do with degrees of confidence -- knowledge is the absolute, or "perfect" confidence -- the point at which the word belief no longer has any meaning.

So when someone says that they know god exists, we can understand this to mean that they are certain of it, that there is no doubt. If they say they believe god exists, they are admitting the possibility that they are wrong, which is to say that they are not certain.

A compromise definition, perhaps: faith is certainty of something in the absence of evidence (or anything close to sufficient evidence, at least).

Of course, this is all semantic nonsense. But it's fun semantic nonsense.

GG, when I say "knowledge without evidence" I mean that you know god exists -- not that you have no further questions about religion, particular modes of faith, etc. You are absolutely certain that god exists -- and that is all I'm saying. Is this the case?

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What I think Balding was saying ( and I'm sure he'll be along shortly to correct me if I'm wrong, either that or upbraid me for the possibly unjustified familiarity  ) is that the site you linked to, while unusual in its attempt at fairness, is never the less riddled with logical fallacies, managing only to avoid the more blatantly obvious ones.

You pretty much covered it. And of course the role of the Fool is quite beyond reproach for familiarity.... ;)

what i dont understand is how come we cant live in the realities of this world yet still work for the world that lies in our near future.

Well, the reason is probably something like this:

We don't believe in either god or an afterlife (or have very little confidence in the idea that god or an afterlife exists). This is complicated by the fact that, were we to decide at some point that there was a likelihood of god or an afterlife, we would have to choose from among hundreds of ideas of what those things are, or figure out one of our own.

Since this is the case, we believe that spending time and energy making preparations for an afterlife has a farily good probability of being a waste of that time and energy, especially if you consider that the preparations will depend on which version of god and/or afterlife is correct.

The question is this: if one cannot detect god in any way, how can one believe in god? If one cannot detect an afterlife in any way, how can one believe in an afterlife?

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My apologies for the screwy quotations -- apparently, this forum software has issues with using QUOTE=username tags in the main body of the post. Or something.

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yes, balding ape. faith in Jeus Christ our Lord was what first got me to know that God exists. and all the knowledge i have accumulated through my years has allowed me to grow in that faith. and yes, i am absolutely certain that Jesus Christ exists. God is real. Amen!

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Hebrews 11:1 : “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”

Faith is the gas that runs the vehicle hope. Faith is built on facts, for sure. But, should everything be ultimately explained, there would be no need for faith.

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The question is this:  if one cannot detect god in any way, how can one believe in god?  If one cannot detect an afterlife in any way, how can one believe in an afterlife?

How do you detect other things that are metaphysical?

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The question is this:  if one cannot detect god in any way, how can one believe in god?  If one cannot detect an afterlife in any way, how can one believe in an afterlife?

How do you detect other things that are metaphysical?

How do you believe in something undetectible?

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(you are aware though that marketing types will say that 1 kilobyte=1000 bytes?)

yup.

and are you aware of the lack of marketing types that will treat 1 kilobyte=1000 bytes?

e.g. bill u the price of 1 kb for 950 bytes... etc...

more proof of gods non-existence

1 byte = 8 bits

but you cant really argue much using these points, as computers werent around when god (oops... accidentally spelt that "cod"... lucky i noticed before hitting "Add Reply"...) created us/the planet.

so supposedly computers arent/werent influenced by god.

and who says just cause things are/arent multiples of ten they are/are not made by god? what makes you think 10 isnt god's most dreaded number? :blink:

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The question is this:  if one cannot detect god in any way, how can one believe in god?  If one cannot detect an afterlife in any way, how can one believe in an afterlife?

How do you detect other things that are metaphysical?

I'm not sure that I do believe in anything metaphysical (in the sense that metaphysical = immaterial or supernatural), aside from perhaps thought, and only that because it is entirely self-evident. But I'm not thinking at my best right now -- very tired. Perhaps I'm missing the point.

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Everything doesn't have to be explained. The Gospel of John concludes with basically saying that there were many more amazing things that Jesus did in His Life. so many things that they could not all be contained in this book. Even if they were, our mind capacity would not be able to handle how great it is.

there must be a need for faith in us. The 3 greatest virtues are faith, hope and love. Jesus spoke fondly about faith. He said how someone is blessed if they do not see, yet still believe. Jesus said that after rising from the dead and allowing Thomas to feel Jesus' wounds. :)

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The question is this:  if one cannot detect god in any way, how can one believe in god?  If one cannot detect an afterlife in any way, how can one believe in an afterlife?

answer to your first question: just because you claim to not detect God in any way, doesn't mean that everyone else has not. one of my post talks about a Charismatic Catholic Mass and healing service that i went to. people there no longer needed canes, no longer had stomach disease, no longer had a filthy mind. i saw it with my own eyes. i felt it. at another healing service, the Power of the Holy Spirit was so mighty that when a priest or deacon like person put their hands over me or on me (i forget which way) and said, "Come, Holy Spirit. Come, Holy Spirit." I fell backwards. i was too weak and the Power was so strong. it was astounding! how much more do you need??

answer to your second question: just because heaven nor hell are tangible to us at this point in our lives doesn't mean that they don't exist. i all it faith. trust is another good words for it. i am yet to be convinced that God's Word is false. After life is mentioned over and over and over again in there.

:D I know there is a God and i know that when you die, you're either going up or down. i don't want to go down and anyone that believes in heaven and hell i would think would stand beside me on that point. ;)

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i don't really understand the connection between kilobytes in a computer "prooving" that God doesn't exist. which He really does exist. Praise God for ever and ever more. May you come to know Him. God is waiting to know you. just ask him honestly to come into your heart, mind, body, and soul.

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i don't really understand the connection between kilobytes in a computer "prooving" that God doesn't exist. which He really does exist. Praise God for ever and ever more. May you come to know Him. God is waiting to know you. just ask him honestly to come into your heart, mind, body, and soul.

hahaha :D

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how much more do you need??

I need to feel it myself. I don't trust the perceptions of others.

just because heaven nor hell are tangible to us at this point in our lives doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Of course that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I think you missed the point of my question: how do I know it exists? I wasn't trying to suggest that my lack of knowledge or ability to perceive them meant they don't exist -- I just don't know how I could have faith, when I have no evidence that any of it is real.

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I need to feel it myself. I don't trust the perceptions of others.

then unharden your heart. and go to a Charismatic Catholic healing service. the Charismatic ones are my favorite; people speak in tongues and are healed from terrible things! it is SOOOO awesome!!! :lol:

I wasn't trying to suggest that my lack of knowledge or ability to perceive them meant they don't exist -- I just don't know how I could have faith, when I have no evidence that any of it is real.

then unharden your heart. if you want to have faith in God, you have to believe what He tells you in the Bible. ask God to fill your mind and heart and soul. that way you may come to know Him. once you know Him, you'll never want to turn back. trust this.

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another way to grow in your faith in God is by listening to Christian music. i'm not talking "boring" Christian music. i mean the upbeat, fun kind. i recommend the group "five iron frenzy" they are a Christian/ ska/ rock/ punk band. i've hardly talked to anyone that's heard of them. after they listen to that group, i've hardly met anyone that doesn't like it.

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music is a great way to think about God. here's a song that's kind of cool. it's by mark shultz ( i think ).

I would take no for an answer,

Just to know I heard you speak,

And I'm wondering why I've never,

Seen the signs they claim they see,

A lotta special revelations,

Meant for everybody but me,

Maybe I don't truly know You,

or maybe I just simply believe...

Chorus: Cause I can sniff, I can see, and I can

count up pretty high; but these faculties

aren't getting me any closer to the sky,

but my heart of faith keeps poundin' so

I know I'm doin' fine but sometimes findin

you is just like tryin to smell the color nine.

Smell the color nine...

Now I've never felt the presence,

But I know You're always near,

And I've never heard the calling,

But somehow You've led me right here,

So I'm not lookin' for burnin' bushes,

Or some Divine graffiti to appear,

I'm just beggin You for Your wisdom,

And I believe You're puttin' some here...

Chorus

(ah's and do's)

Chorus (repeat)

Nine's not a color...

and if even if it were you can't smell a color,no

that's my point exactly.

do do do do do do do (repeat)

;)

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whats so funny?

You have no life.....

Here you are gravely mistaken... She even has an afterlife!!! ;)

Gurl... how old are you?

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