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Do RAMdrives with SATA 6.0GB/s and DDR3 exist?


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#1 GPett

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 09:38 PM

Hello... I am no hardware guru to know what is or is not out there. All I have found is the rather old ACARD Ramdrive. I would love to find a SATA 6.0 Hardware RAMdrive that uses DDR3.

DDR3 prices are insanely cheap right now. Such as $24.99 (2X4GB) 8GB 1600MHz DDR3 Patriot ram.

Does something like this exist? I am guessing no.

#2 MRFS

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 10:53 PM

No. I've been investigating this topic for several years,
and I also have a patent pending on such a device.

Meanwhile, you might want to look into RamDisk Plus:

http://www.superspee...top/ramdisk.php

I also wrote a long review of RamDisk Plus here,
which the vendor liked very much:

http://www.supremela...Plus.Review.htm

You can't load an OS into such a ramdisk, however.


And, here's a forward-looking technical paper I authored in July 2010
on this same subject:

http://www.supremela...s.version.3.pdf


The closest you can come right now, with the speed you want,
is to assemble multiple 6G SSDs e.g. SandForce controllers,
in a RAID 0. Reportedly, those SSDs are doing READs at
~ 550 MB/second, which is very close to MAX HEADROOM for SATA III
(allowing for controller overhead).

And, there are now a few reviews on the Internet of
multiple 6G SSDs configured in RAID 0 arrays.


What I believe also needs to happen is at least 2 additional enhancements
before RAM-based storage can begin to realize its true potential:

(1) increase the standard SATA transmission speed to 8 GHz; and,
(2) incorporate the PCI-E 3.0 standard jumbo frame of 128b/130b during transmission.

(Note: the volatility problem of RAM has been been solved, but many IT enthusiasts don't know it, yet.)

These 2 changes will permit SATA/SAS channels to transmit 1 Gigabyte per second
in each direction: that, in turn, will provide a welcome and badly needed increase
in the raw bandwidth that is appropriate when DDR3 SDRAM is the storage medium:

DDR3-1066 x 8 = 8.5 GB/second (aka PC3-8500)

Clearly, the interface speed is the limiting factor.

Our patented invention uses a "quad-channel" architecture with a MAX HEADROOM
initially of 2.4 GB/second (4 @ 600), and 4.0 GB/second by incorporating the 2 enhancements above.


I hope this helps.


MRFS

#3 GPett

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 11:47 PM

No. I've been investigating this topic for several years,
and I also have a patent pending on such a device.

Meanwhile, you might want to look into RamDisk Plus:

http://www.superspee...top/ramdisk.php

I also wrote a long review of RamDisk Plus here,
which the vendor liked very much:

http://www.supremela...Plus.Review.htm

You can't load an OS into such a ramdisk, however.


And, here's a forward-looking technical paper I authored in July 2010
on this same subject:

http://www.supremela...s.version.3.pdf


The closest you can come right now, with the speed you want,
is to assemble multiple 6G SSDs e.g. SandForce controllers,
in a RAID 0. Reportedly, those SSDs are doing READs at
~ 550 MB/second, which is very close to MAX HEADROOM for SATA III
(allowing for controller overhead).

And, there are now a few reviews on the Internet of
multiple 6G SSDs configured in RAID 0 arrays.


What I believe also needs to happen is at least 2 additional enhancements
before RAM-based storage can begin to realize its true potential:

(1) increase the standard SATA transmission speed to 8 GHz; and,
(2) incorporate the PCI-E 3.0 standard jumbo frame of 128b/130b during transmission.

(Note: the volatility problem of RAM has been been solved, but many IT enthusiasts don't know it, yet.)

These 2 changes will permit SATA/SAS channels to transmit 1 Gigabyte per second
in each direction: that, in turn, will provide a welcome and badly needed increase
in the raw bandwidth that is appropriate when DDR3 SDRAM is the storage medium:

DDR3-1066 x 8 = 8.5 GB/second (aka PC3-8500)

Clearly, the interface speed is the limiting factor.

Our patented invention uses a "quad-channel" architecture with a MAX HEADROOM
initially of 2.4 GB/second (4 @ 600), and 4.0 GB/second by incorporating the 2 enhancements above.


I hope this helps.


MRFS


Whoa... Overachieve much?

A simple yes or no answer would have sufficed. :lol:

Seriously, Thanks for the wealth of information. Good luck with your project. You might be what the RAM memory market is looking for to lift memory prices out of the basement. Cheers!

#4 FastMHz

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 03:37 PM

AFAIC, a DDR3 ramdisk only has one option for interface - PCI-E. SATA is painfully slow for a real RAMDisk - The flash SSDs are already saturating it. Might as well skip over SATA and put a bunch of battery backed ram onto a PCI card.

Production: Vishera 8350/32gb RAM/Dual SSD/VelociRaptor/Radeon 7750
Gaming: Phenom II 955/16gb RAM/SSD/VelociRaptor/Radeon 7950
Retro: K6-2 550/256mb RAM/160gb HDD/CompactFlash/3DFX/ATI AIW Pro/SB16/DB50XG
http://www.fastmhz.com

#5 Telstar The Sorcerer

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:17 PM

I think we better wait for intel version of thunderbolt with pci-e 3.0 to have sufficient bandwith, or at least 8 lanes of pcie 2.0.

ADATA has something but afaik it uses ddr2.
I intel 2600k | H100 con 2x AP-29 | Asrock P67 Extreme4 Gen3 | 8GB Corsair Vengeance 1866 CL9 | GTX570 MSI TwinFrozr III |
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#6 FastMHz

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 07:02 PM

I did an experiment not long ago where I sectioned an 12gb RAMDrive out of my system memory (I have 16gb total so this was fine) and proceeded to use VirtualBox to install Win7 onto a virtual drive placed on the ram disk.

All I can say is that it made my SSD feel slow...

Production: Vishera 8350/32gb RAM/Dual SSD/VelociRaptor/Radeon 7750
Gaming: Phenom II 955/16gb RAM/SSD/VelociRaptor/Radeon 7950
Retro: K6-2 550/256mb RAM/160gb HDD/CompactFlash/3DFX/ATI AIW Pro/SB16/DB50XG
http://www.fastmhz.com

#7 xchaotic

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 10:58 AM

I did an experiment not long ago where I sectioned an 12gb RAMDrive out of my system memory (I have 16gb total so this was fine) and proceeded to use VirtualBox to install Win7 onto a virtual drive placed on the ram disk.

All I can say is that it made my SSD feel slow...


I played around with software based RAMDisk - much better than SSDs, but not close to theoretical limits

Attached Files


#8 DUART

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:51 AM

I hate to have to bump this 'old' post but I have a pet peeve...

According to MRFS, if he's right, I want to combat this RAMDRIVE issue
because we truly need a DDR3 RamDrive system so Here' my wishlist:

RamDrive3 with 8 DDR3 RAMslots, all on PCI and/or PCIe x16 cards
-onboard ARM RISC based .ASM CPU with BIOS?
-onboard BATT
-onboard USB for R/W and Format Access to RamDrive3 to backup/restore/modify
-various LED indicators for blah...

I figure 64GB suffices as one would just load an OS or something, but
this HAS to be built. This HAS to be Built.

Edit: I would design one myself if one can help me on Bridging, Stepping.

Card should be about $189US and should smoke (not Jenie) on thruputs, right?
-UART

Edited by DUART, 09 February 2013 - 08:55 AM.

#9 extasz

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 04:59 PM

I hate to have to bump this 'old' post but I have a pet peeve...

According to MRFS, if he's right, I want to combat this RAMDRIVE issue
because we truly need a DDR3 RamDrive system so Here' my wishlist:

RamDrive3 with 8 DDR3 RAMslots, all on PCI and/or PCIe x16 cards
-onboard ARM RISC based .ASM CPU with BIOS?
-onboard BATT
-onboard USB for R/W and Format Access to RamDrive3 to backup/restore/modify
-various LED indicators for blah...

I figure 64GB suffices as one would just load an OS or something, but
this HAS to be built. This HAS to be Built.

Edit: I would design one myself if one can help me on Bridging, Stepping.

Card should be about $189US and should smoke (not Jenie) on thruputs, right?
-UART


Here some fire blasting pci-e ssd in raid configuration:

Fusion-io releases ioFX SSD card: 420GB for $2,495

OCZ Technology ZD4RM88-FH-800​G 800GB Z-Drive R4 PCI Express

Fusion-io ioCache VM Edition 600GB Cache Accelerator (F07-001-600G-CS-0001)

it's around 7,000 $

and if you have too much $$$ this dream

www.fusionio.com/products/iodrive-octal/ of 5 tera

Edited by extasz, 13 February 2013 - 06:22 PM.

#10 DUART

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 02:54 PM

Here some fire blasting pci-e ssd in raid configuration:

Fusion-io releases ioFX SSD card: 420GB for $2,495

OCZ Technology ZD4RM88-FH-800​G 800GB Z-Drive R4 PCI Express

Fusion-io ioCache VM Edition 600GB Cache Accelerator (F07-001-600G-CS-0001)

it's around 7,000 $

and if you have too much $$$ this dream

www.fusionio.com/products/iodrive-octal/ of 5 tera


...well,. at least they exist. :(

#11 gfody

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:33 PM

If there was a kickstarter for a pcie ddr3 drive I would pay. I'm surprised the dram storage vendors don't offer products like this.. actually violin has these things called "memory cards" but there's not much info on the page and judging by the capacity I'd guess these were flash based: http://www.violin-me...ity-pcie-cards/

#12 ramdrive

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 02:34 PM

With today mobo’s supporting 32Gb or 64Gb of DDR3 one can think that 7Gb/s reads/writes on that ram would be nice to use as a temp drive. But wait, how about the BIOS be able to setup a ram drive ? Imagine having that ability now you could use a 32Gb ram drive for your OS. Yes, it's volatile so that means it needs a backup mechanism. Coupled with an SSD you can sacrifice some time at boot and shutdown for that backup process. This is not the best idea but to use a ram drive set directly from BIOS, using system RAM, sounds appealing.


Edited by ramdrive, 21 October 2013 - 02:36 PM.

#13 bytre

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:03 PM

I was running my computer (Apple ][gs) out of a reliable battery backed up RAMDisk a quarter of a century ago.  It is a travesty that we can't do it affordably today.


#14 MRFS

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:46 PM

Our patent pending is briefly summarized in my Presentation

to the Storage Developer Conference a year ago in Santa Clara, California.

 

Setting Nand Flash memory aside for the moment, I believe the original topic

concerned DDR3 technology wired to motherboards via standard 6G SATA-III cables.

 

Then, subsequent comments migrated to mentioning the possibility of

running an OS entirely in DRAM.

 

FYI:  one of my earliest Provisional Patent Applications was a proposal

to modify BIOS subsystems with a "Format RAM" option:  that application

was submitted before the advent of UEFI subsystems.

 

That approach would create a ramdisk PRIOR TO loading an OS the first time

e.g. using Windows Setup.

 

Now that BIOS subsystems are being replaced with far superior UEFI technology,

this idea should be a lot easier to implement with UEFI.

 

Just yesterday, the folks at SuperSpeed showed me a 1TB ramdisk

which their software had successfully configured, using RamDisk Plus.

 

Another important and relevant development is the progress being

made in NVDIMMs -- Non-Volatile DRAM modules.

 

As far as I know, the majors are pouring millions into developing

commercially viable solutions.

 

If you're really interested, I viewed an excellent webinar recently

presented by Jeff Chang at AgigA Tech:

 

https://www.brightta...bcast/663/95329

 

His graphics were quite superb, imho, and he was quite generous

and also very prompt when replying to my private email as he did.

 

Pre-loading an OS directly into DRAM would benefit enormously

from truly Non-Volatile DRAM.

 

Some NVDIMMs solve the volatility problem with "super-caps"

(super capacitors).

 

Others utilize emerging technologies like Everspin's spin-torque MRAM.

 

Another, quite practical interim solution for PCIe implementations

is a secondary AC adapter that plugs into the PCI slot cover:

 

these AC adapters are quite ubiquitous e.g. for powering monitors,

scanners and printers.

 

This adapter from Orico is a good starting point, as long as

you realize it assumes the power supply is INSIDE the chassis;

 

nevertheless, you get the idea e.g. an ON/OFF switch at the slot cover

is a very good idea particularly if an external AC adapter is used:

 

http://en.orico.com....fo.aspx?pid=800

 

 

Finally, if you don't already know about this company

check out DDRDrive:

 

http://ddrdrive.com/

 

 

As things stand right now, I'm strongly advocating 2 new features

to the next SATA-IV standard:  8G transmission clock and 128/130 "jumbo frames".

 

In the long run, I believe the industry should be moving towards

generalized overclocking of data storage subsystems:  as such,

SATA transmission clocks should be variable:  6G / 8G / 12G / 16G

 

The switch from 8b/10b "legacy frames" to 128b/130b "jumbo frames"

can be accomplished in a variety of ways:  jumper blocks, auto-detection,

Option ROMs and probably solutions still to be invented.

 

 

Hope this helps.


#15 MRFS

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:57 PM

FYI:  my articles on related topics are here:

 

http://supremelaw.org/patents/SDC/

 

 

e.g. Presentation to the Storage Developer Conference last year is here:

 

http://supremelaw.or...resentation.pdf


#16 DUART

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:43 AM

Just checking in... bump.


#17 epsilion

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:37 PM

Well I have 2 ideas about this one is to fix having a battery Put either 2 RAID 0 SSD as storage and write new data off the RAM after shutdown and a battery with enough capacity and output to run the 2 SSD's and RAM until all the new data has been written to the SSD's.

And during start up you boot off the SSD's then after boot up and everything is loaded you start writing to the RAM then after that has finished you halt read/writes and switch over to the RAM drive. 32GB SSD's are cheap enough that compared the the price of the RAM its small.

Second and the more sensible idea is to do a SSD RAM Hybrid, and down the amount of RAM to 4 - 16GB and use a 256-1TB SSD and just load all of the most used stuff to the on device RAM.

Considering the price of RAM and the Price of SSD's the second is the most logical but if your looking for pure performance the first is obviously the best, but anyone who is willing to spend enough on the RAM would just buy a motherboard with a s*** ton of RAM slots and fill them all with the largest capacity RAM they can find and use a software based solution.

Also another bonus if you programmed it for it and well for it is you could make it so that files that change regularly or will only be stored temporarily... like for instance temporary files will be loaded to the RAM saving the SSD from more Read/Writes than necessary and there for extending its life. Which is one of the main concerns behind SSD's for most people even though it is mostly a baseless concern given most peoples usage of storage. but it would sell it and it would extend the life so...

Oh balls I just looked at that dudes presentation http://supremelaw.or...resentation.pdf

I didn't know PCIe 3 was only 1GB/ps no point in a actual RAM drive... DAMNIT... Come on PCI e 10 lulz

 


Edited by epsilion, 05 April 2014 - 03:31 PM.

#18 continuum

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 06:25 PM

PCI-e 3.0 offers plenty of bandwidth, it's 1GBps per lane so if you need more bandwidth, you just add lanes-- PCI-e supports up to x16 links.


#19 Maxtor storage

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:45 PM

Sadly, the issue might be that companies don't want to invest in this due to patent royalties or just low demand for the investment return.

 

The one other device/drive that I know of that is current generation is the STEC ZeusRAM (3.5", 8GB, SAS). The other newer one from the same company is the STEC s840Z (2.5", 16GB, SAS).


Edited by Maxtor storage, 23 April 2014 - 02:49 PM.

#20 Brian

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:28 PM

OCZ had flirted with a similar product a while back but it nave came to market. I'd be surprised if Toshiba pushed that forward given the limited applications. That said, we have the ZeusRAM drives in our Nexenta build and I'm sure those resellers would love a second choice since it's pretty instrumental in how that system works. 


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